dsp wrote:THIS GETS THE DSP SEAL OF APPROVAL

cool, we get pacino on board and we have something

EDIT: WE HAVE SOMETHING!!

Considering the Phils also get a No. 1 starter out of it, I like it.

Woody wrote:How did I know that you'd bebop in to piss on our parade

I love it! Better?

Yeah. I was yelled at last year with words just like that when I was crazy enough to think the Garcia deal was a bad one.

Laexile wrote:

Woody wrote:How did I know that you'd bebop in to piss on our parade

I love it! Better?

Yeah. I was yelled at last year with words just like that when I was crazy enough to think the Garcia deal was a bad one.

none of us remember that, and whether that was even true, and you don't remember other people's opinions on that deal either.

that doesn't make your opinion the correct one on this topic

LA most people I know including my kid's busdriver hated the Garcia trade

ekravitz wrote:Garcia was a walking MRI.

a lot of people were worried about his loss in velocity and why the sox were so willing to deal him, la is just creating a side to a non-argument in order to prove his current opinion on a complete different deal correct


edit: I found my initial reaction about the Garcia trade:

The Phillies dealt pitchers Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez to the Chicago White Sox for pitcher Freddy Garcia. I will have a more in-depth opinion soon enough, but right now I’m wondering why we were so willing to deal Gonzalez. Sure he was wild, but he has tons of potential. This also means that the Phils are going to reportedly try to trade Jon Lieber. Who knows about this deal on the surface.

ReadingPhilly wrote:myers will be fine. his wife on the other hand....

Brad Lidge. I like it.

Rotoworld's opinion:

We're not at all impressed with Ed Wade's first move as Houston's GM. Bourn could have a long career as a fair regular, but he's basically another Willy Taveras for the Astros. If Lidge's arrival in Philadelphia results in Brett Myers' return to the rotation, this could be a big winner for Pat Gillick. Geary is an average middle reliever and Costanzo's a long shot to have a career, so this basically boils down to Lidge for Bourn. Lidge is only under control for one more year, so it's not a huge slam dunk. Still, turning Myers back into a starter gives the Phillies a bigger rotation upgrade than they possibly could have picked up in free agency.

pac-- can you link that thread? I couldnt' find it

from the Astros mlb.com messageboard:

"Unbelievable. The astros trade Closer Brad Lidge and SS Eric Bruntlett to the Phils for CF Michael Bourne, RP Geoff Geary, and a AA Prospect.

Lidge is a free agent who the Astros were not going to resign in 08. Bruntlett is a 2nd string SS after everett.

Michael Bourne has speed and great defense in center field. He is a capable leadoff hitter. He will allow Pence to move to rightfield, and allow Luke Scott to be traded. Geary is a 7th inning relief pitcher. The AA guy hit 28 homers last year. NICE PICKUP. Wade is a stud.
"

bleh wrote:from the Astros mlb.com messageboard:

"Unbelievable. The astros trade Closer Brad Lidge and SS Eric Bruntlett to the Phils for CF Michael Bourne, RP Geoff Geary, and a AA Prospect.

Lidge is a free agent who the Astros were not going to resign in 08. Bruntlett is a 2nd string SS after everett.

Michael Bourne has speed and great defense in center field. He is a capable leadoff hitter. He will allow Pence to move to rightfield, and allow Luke Scott to be traded. Geary is a 7th inning relief pitcher. The AA guy hit 28 homers last year. NICE PICKUP. Wade is a stud.
"

I'm gonna go to sleep laughing tonight.

Ed Wade is a stud.

That's hilarious.

The big deal here, obviously, is that Myers goes back to the rotation. Simply put, there was no starter available, certainly not at $20.5 million owed for two years, remotely as good as Myers. So you've got a shift in the closer role from Myers to Lidge, which is probably about even--better if you think that Lidge can get back to his 2004-2005 level, which at age 31 doesn't seem impossible--and a massive upgrade from whoever would have slotted in after Hamels, Moyer, Kendrick and Eaton (let's say Durbin) to Brett Myers.

Lidge is only under contract for one more year, but that doesn't particularly bother me; if he's effective, you extend him, and if a Mathieson or Bisenius or whoever else emerges, that's your closer going forward. The alternative was probably overpaying for Francisco Cordero--something like four years, $42 million--who's older than Lidge and in my view as much or more of a risk.

Every trade has risk, and it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Bourn do a great job for Houston. But given the alternatives, I really like this move.

I also think this is probably a sign that Gillick will be willing to empty out the farm altogether in order to go out a winner. Not a bad call, probably.

Awesome deal. This is exactly what I wanted to happen. Acquire a closer (although my plan was to sign F.Cordero) and move Myers back into the rotation which kills two birds with one stone. There aren't any free agent pitchers available that even come close to giving you what Myers is capable of. We gave up a platoon 3B prospect, a 4th OF, and an easily replaceable middle reliever. By not spending the 10 mill per season on Cordero, I assume we resign Lohse and pick up a platoon partner like Geoff Jenkins as has already been mentioned. Jenkins slipped a little vs RH pitching this year, but he has been well above average against righties the past few seasons before that. He makes a perfect platoon partner for Werth who absolutely crushed lefties last year.

Lidge's peripherals are still very good and he easily becomes the best reliever on the team. It's hard to get excited about Bruntlett as our utility guy in 08 but then again there are no guarantees that he even makes the team. He only made 400K last year and didn't do anything to deserve a big raise. Now all we need is to resign Romero (only if the price is reasonable) and pick up 1 more quality reliever like Hawkins, Mahay, Affeldt, Riske, or Linebrink. I can certainly live with:

C: Ruiz
1B: Howard
2B: Utley
SS: Rollins
3B: Dobbs/Helms
LF: Burrell
CF: Victorino
RF: Jenkins/Werth

B: Dobbs/Helms, Jenkins/Werth, Bruntlett, Coste, and Burrell's personal caddy

SP1: Myers
SP2: Hamels
SP3: Lohse
SP4: Moyer
SP5: Eaton

CL: Lidge
SU- RHP: Gordon
SU- LHP: Romero
MR: Hawkins/Mahay/Affeldt/Linebrink/Riske
MR: Madson
MR: Condrey
MR: Rosario

Phight On! wrote:Awesome deal. This is exactly what I wanted to happen. Acquire a closer (although my plan was to sign F.Cordero) and move Myers back into the rotation which kills two birds with one stone. There aren't any free agent pitchers available that even come close to giving you what Myers is capable of. We gave up a platoon 3B prospect, a 4th OF, and an easily replaceable middle reliever. By not spending the 10 mill per season on Cordero, I assume we resign Lohse and pick up a platoon partner like Geoff Jenkins as has already been mentioned. Jenkins slipped a little vs RH pitching this year, but he has been well above average against righties the past few seasons before that. He makes a HAMELS platoon partner for Werth who absolutely crushed lefties last year.

Lidge's peripherals are still very good and he easily becomes the best reliever on the team. It's hard to get excited about Bruntlett as our utility guy in 08 but then again there are no guarantees that he even makes the team. He only made 400K last year and didn't do anything to deserve a big raise. Now all we need is to resign Romero (only if the price is reasonable) and pick up 1 more quality reliever like Hawkins, Mahay, Affeldt, Riske, or Linebrink. I can certainly live with:

C: Ruiz
1B: Howard
2B: Utley
SS: Rollins
3B: Dobbs/Helms
LF: Burrell
CF: Victorino
RF: Jenkins/Werth

B: Dobbs/Helms, Jenkins/Werth, Bruntlett, Coste, and Burrell's personal caddy

SP1: Myers
SP2: Hamels
SP3: Lohse
SP4: Moyer
SP5: Eaton

CL: Lidge
SU- RHP: Gordon
SU- LHP: Romero
MR: Hawkins/Mahay/Affeldt/Linebrink/Riske
MR: Madson
MR: Condrey
MR: Rosario

Where's Kendrick?

dajafi wrote:I also think this is probably a sign that Gillick will be willing to empty out the farm altogether in order to go out a winner. Not a bad call, probably.

If it means a championship in 2008, I'd gladly trade it for losing seasons from 2009-2030. This team is built to win now. There's not building for the future anymore. The farm doesn't look very good as it is so I see no problem trading the strength that's there right now.

I do rather enjoy this trade as well. Just to echo almost everything that has already been said, this kills two bird with one stone.

The only real question was Costanzo, but what I've seen and read about him indicates that he was very comparable to Russell Branyan. Yes, he'd be a decent bench player but not a great starter.

Putting Myers back in the rotation really helps solidify the staff, assuming Kyle Lohse is resigned at a reasonable rate. I wouldn't be at all uncomfortable going with:

1 - Hamels
2 - Myers
3 - Lohse
4 - Moyer
5 - Kendrick/Eaton/Carrasco/Anyone

I think my biggest problem with this deal is that it almost ends the offseason... well, that's an exaggeration. But aside from maybe one or two reliever pickups and the odd NRI to a rehabbing type, we're probably set. Right now the rotation is Hamels/Myers/Moyer/Kendrick/Eaton. The bullpen is Lidge/Madson/Gordon, Romero or another lefty acquisition, and three of Mathieson/Rosario/Condrey/Zagurski/Durbin.

They'll either re-sign Rowand or (more likely) move Shane to CF and sign a Wilkerson or Jenkins type to split time with Werth. Perhaps they'll add another OF to take the Bourn late inning speed/defense role--though it's also possible that will be Bruntlett's job.

Maybe a guy like Lamb will be added at third base. Maybe not.

And probably that's pretty much it.

Why do people think Lohse is coming back? Was there something in the press today that I missed?

I'd actually like to see him back; I think he's more likely to have a good year in 2008 than any of Kendrick, Eaton and Moyer. But between Boras's greed and Lohse's disdain for the ballpark, it just didn't seem probable to me.

I think there's 0 chance they'll sign another starter now. We just have to hope Eaton will be bad instead of terrible.