wasn't Bruntlett the name of the human version of the title character in one of the more recent remakes of The Fly (the one with Jeff Goldbloom)?

Lidge is a player practically fated to play for the Phils; in the intangibles department, the thinking fan's Mitch Williams.

Gillick and Amaro saying basically everything you could want them to say there.

jerseyhoya wrote:Where's Kendrick?

Good question. I believe there are 3 possibilities for Kendrick.

1. His peripherals improve and he becomes a solid #4 starter for us while shifting Eaton to a long reliever role. We saw how much confidence Manuel had in Eaton down the stretch last year, so it's not far fetched for it to happen.

2. We know that we will need at least 6 or 7 starters throughout the season so it's possible Kendrick starts the year in AAA (assuming Eaton shows some improvement and returns to form as a good #4 pitcher).

3. We sell high on Kendrick and trade him for a good 4th OF or some bullpen help. I hate to say it but it looks like Kendrick got pretty lucky last year.

Phight On! wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:Where's Kendrick?

Good question. I believe there are 3 possibilities for Kendrick.

1. His peripherals improve and he becomes a solid #4 starter for us while shifting Eaton to a long reliever role. We saw how much confidence Manuel had in Eaton down the stretch last year, so it's not far fetched for it to happen.

2. We know that we will need at least 6 or 7 starters throughout the season so it's possible Kendrick starts the year in AAA (assuming Eaton shows some improvement and returns to form as a good #4 pitcher).

3. We sell high on Kendrick and trade him for a good 4th OF or some bullpen help. I hate to say it but it looks like Kendrick got pretty lucky last year.

Fair enough.

I guess would lean towards 1 or 2, i.e. not trading him. I wouldn't neglect signing a FA starter because I was married to having Kendrick in it, and last year showed depth in the rotation isn't a bad thing. But I'd rather sign some slop if the best you can get for him is a 4th outfielder. And I'd certainly make Eaton earn his spot in the rotation over Kendrick if it came down to that.

pacino wrote:

Laexile wrote:

Woody wrote:How did I know that you'd bebop in to piss on our parade

I love it! Better?

Yeah. I was yelled at last year with words just like that when I was crazy enough to think the Garcia deal was a bad one.

none of us remember that, and whether that was even true, and you don't remember other people's opinions on that deal either.

that doesn't make your opinion the correct one on this topic

Dude, chill. No, it doesn't make me right on this one. That you don't remember it doesn't mean I didn't have that opinion. And really what I think doesn't matter. If Brad Lidge pitches well this works out. I think Myers is a better closer, but there just isn't a starter of Myers quality out there either.

I love this.

We traded, essentially, nothing.

A 31-year-old middle reliever with awful K rates and more hits than innings, an outfielder with bagel power, and a middling 3B prospect... that's nothing.

We got a 31-year-old closer with sick K rates (actually best K-rate of all time) and very few hits allowed. And in the process, we get our #1 starter back, though he's since been passed by Hamels and is probably our #2 now.

Bruntlett's nothing, really... he's played every position but C in the majors, and is a plus defender, but he's got even less power than Bourn.

Lidge is sweet, and Myers the starter is even sweeter.

myers may like the penn better but its better for him financially if he starts 3 or 4 more years while he can - then move to the penn later in his career.

don't mind losing bourn. kind of silly to have him an vic both on the team - and neither of them leading off.

Better n' nothin'.

Maybe.

jerseyhoya wrote:Fair enough.

I guess would lean towards 1 or 2, i.e. not trading him. I wouldn't neglect signing a FA starter because I was married to having Kendrick in it, and last year showed depth in the rotation isn't a bad thing. But I'd rather sign some slop if the best you can get for him is a 4th outfielder. And I'd certainly make Eaton earn his spot in the rotation over Kendrick if it came down to that.

Of course I forgot the most obvious role for Kendrick which is to just plug him in as the #3 starter (meaning we don't acquire another pitcher and Eaton and Moyer are your #4 and #5) and hope last year wasn't a fluke. Personally I would feel a lot better if we had a Lohse-type starter in the #3 slot but if Kendrick can improve his peripherals he might just be the real deal. Of course that's much easier said than done and it certainly isn't going to happen overnight.

Shore wrote:I love this.

We traded, essentially, nothing.

A 31-year-old middle reliever with awful K rates and more hits than innings, an outfielder with bagel power, and a middling 3B prospect... that's nothing.

We got a 31-year-old closer with sick K rates (actually best K-rate of all time) and very few hits allowed. And in the process, we get our #1 starter back, though he's since been passed by Hamels and is probably our #2 now.

Bruntlett's nothing, really... he's played every position but C in the majors, and is a plus defender, but he's got even less power than Bourn.

Lidge is sweet, and Myers the starter is even sweeter.

Almost exactly what I was going to say. We gave up nothing. Bourn projects as a .700 OPS (maybe .750 in a good year), Geary is AAAA fungible and Costanzo only seems to hit well in the second half of minor league seasons -- after all the quality pitchers have been promoted. Lidge allows Myers to go back to the rotation and the former's short contract is a plus, not a minus. We didn't have to overbid for Francisco Codero.

One of Wade's best trades ever -- for the Phillies!

Laexile wrote:I think Myers is a better closer,

really? I could see them being equal, but better? based on what?

drsmooth wrote:wasn't Bruntlett the name of the human version of the title character in one of the more recent remakes of The Fly (the one with Jeff Goldbloom)?

Nope

I liked Myers as the closer, but hard to argue with the move.

Rococo4 wrote:I liked Myers as the closer, but hard to argue with the move.

I agree. But there's no starter reasonably available who's as good as Myers. If the payroll is ~$105MM, there's enough room left to re-sign Romero and Lohse, if they want. More likely, they'll re-sign Romero and sign Geoff Jenkins to platoon in RF with Werth. There's probably enough room to re-sign Romero and Rowand, if they want.

I think the question at this point is whether you'd rather have Rowand back for four years, $44 million (my guess at what he'd accept from the Phillies or White Sox), or let him go, take the picks, and trade for Miguel Tejada at effectively two years, $26 million and then add a guy like Jenkins or Wilkerson to share time with Werth. In either scenario there will be 1-2 more bullpen acquisitions.

Depending on what Baltimore wants for Tejada, that's probably the option I'd choose. He's younger than Lowell and I think a move to a contender would revitalize his bat, and his righty power would be a huge asset in the Phils' lineup.

I really liked Bourn, he was just exciting to watch, but you knew that either he or Victorino were gone, so I'm glad Shane's staying (hopefully...)

At least Bruntlett is an improvment over Nunez (maybe?)

Now, we need some clarification on 3rd base, outfield, and relief pitching. I'd also like to take Eaton out to the shed and put him out of his misery, and take a crapshoot on another starter.

dajafi wrote:I think the question at this point is whether you'd rather have Rowand back for four years, $44 million (my guess at what he'd accept from the Phillies or White Sox), or let him go, take the picks, and trade for Miguel Tejada at effectively two years, $26 million and then add a guy like Jenkins or Wilkerson to share time with Werth. In either scenario there will be 1-2 more bullpen acquisitions.

Depending on what Baltimore wants for Tejada, that's probably the option I'd choose. He's younger than Lowell and I think a move to a contender would revitalize his bat, and his righty power would be a huge asset in the Phils' lineup.

I doubt there's enough left to trade for Tejada, but maybe the O'd would be willing to pull an Abreu, just to dump salary. My guess is that the Phils won't want to trade anything of whatever they've got left to trade unless it's for more pitching. The good news is that there's enough room in the payroll (assuming it's going to ~$105MM) to re-sign Romero, sign Geoff Jenkins for ~$5MM and still have enough left to re-sign Lohse, if they want.

if they want

heh, comical photoshop of lidge on csn

JFLNYC wrote:

dajafi wrote:I think the question at this point is whether you'd rather have Rowand back for four years, $44 million (my guess at what he'd accept from the Phillies or White Sox), or let him go, take the picks, and trade for Miguel Tejada at effectively two years, $26 million and then add a guy like Jenkins or Wilkerson to share time with Werth. In either scenario there will be 1-2 more bullpen acquisitions.

Depending on what Baltimore wants for Tejada, that's probably the option I'd choose. He's younger than Lowell and I think a move to a contender would revitalize his bat, and his righty power would be a huge asset in the Phils' lineup.

I doubt there's enough left to trade for Tejada, but maybe the O'd would be willing to pull an Abreu, just to dump salary. My guess is that the Phils won't want to trade anything of whatever they've got left to trade unless it's for more pitching. The good news is that there's enough room in the payroll (assuming it's going to ~$105MM) to re-sign Romero, sign Geoff Jenkins for ~$5MM and still have enough left to re-sign Lohse, if they want.

Rumor on the other board is that Mora is the one the Phils want to play third and he has said he would waive his NTC to come here.

Sorry for the cross-post, but I didn't think there was any need to type all this out twice..


I'm not a huge Lidge fan (would anyone be surprised if he goes belly-up in Philly in his contract year?), but if it gets Myers back into the rotation, then so be it. I think Gillick went in the right direction here, even if I'm not crazy about his choice of closer.


As for Bruntlett, he's a hitting nightmare, but he's cheap and I'd rather see the money spent on more pitching or a 3B or OFer. I was hoping they would use Nunez' spot for a middle infielder who could steal some bases, since Bourn won't be on the bench as a 4th OFer and the backup middle infielder really won't impact the game much when Rollins and Utley play almost every inning. I figured he could help the team if he was a speed guy who could come in late to steal a base or pinchrun. Otherwise, he'll most lkely be pretty much invisible, unless Charlie makes the mistake of giving him time at 3B.

I'd still like to see them sign Rowand and deal Victorino and one of their young pitchers for another starter. I don't like Kendrick, Moyer, and Eaton as #3, #4, and #5. I think they need a solid #3 and then Eaton (in the pen) and Mathieson (in AAA) can act as backups.

So not a bad start by Gillick.