JFLNYC wrote:Another way to put this trade into perspective: If the Astros had simply moved Bruntlett to CF and had him lead off they would likely have gotten about the same production, both offensively and defensively, as they'll get from Bourn.

Nice to benefit from another GM's irrational lust, for a change

Disco Stu wrote:Let's not overexagerate things here. This does not improve our bullpen. It is a sidestep at best. It does, however, significantly improve our starting rotation. I like the move, but it is worrisome on one level. We have no more at least slightly valuable high minors hitters left. Bourn and Costanzo were the last two above A (for the most part) and both are now gone. While they wouldn't have helped us, it would have been nicer to use them in separate deals.

I have 5 arms in my bullpen right now.

CL- Lidge
R- Gordon
R- Madson
R- Mathieson
L- Happ

That is how you start to make a good bullpen. If we can get Romero for no more than 2.5 a year (ugh, I think that is way too much), that adds a second lefty and gives us a solid 6.

Agree on all your points, except I'd go slightly higher on Romero.

My biggest problem with this deal is that unless the Phillies have decided that Costanzo isn't going to make it, which seems very premature, we have again sold a big piece of he future for a one-year rental. I think both Bourn and Costanzo had a future with the Phillies, extending for half a decade and Geary was likely to be a serviceable middle reliever. I'm not big on this deal.

philliesphhan wrote:heh, comical photoshop of lidge on csn

That was one of those "you have 40 minutes to do this!" deals where they chop a hat and jersey off someone else then paste over the existing one...

Didn't see any mention, but the reason why they showed it was because Lidge called into CSN to talk about the trade. He basically said that he's excited to come here and felt that a change of scenery is what he needed...

allentown wrote:

Disco Stu wrote:Let's not overexagerate things here. This does not improve our bullpen. It is a sidestep at best. It does, however, significantly improve our starting rotation. I like the move, but it is worrisome on one level. We have no more at least slightly valuable high minors hitters left. Bourn and Costanzo were the last two above A (for the most part) and both are now gone. While they wouldn't have helped us, it would have been nicer to use them in separate deals.

I have 5 arms in my bullpen right now.

CL- Lidge
R- Gordon
R- Madson
R- Mathieson
L- Happ

That is how you start to make a good bullpen. If we can get Romero for no more than 2.5 a year (ugh, I think that is way too much), that adds a second lefty and gives us a solid 6.

Agree on all your points, except I'd go slightly higher on Romero.

My biggest problem with this deal is that unless the Phillies have decided that Costanzo isn't going to make it, which seems very premature, we have again sold a big piece of he future for a one-year rental. I think both Bourn and Costanzo had a future with the Phillies, extending for half a decade and Geary was likely to be a serviceable middle reliever. I'm not big on this deal.

A 1 year rental and 2 first round draft picks. Or a multiyear deal. I can live with both.

Disco Stu wrote:

allentown wrote:

Disco Stu wrote:Let's not overexagerate things here. This does not improve our bullpen. It is a sidestep at best. It does, however, significantly improve our starting rotation. I like the move, but it is worrisome on one level. We have no more at least slightly valuable high minors hitters left. Bourn and Costanzo were the last two above A (for the most part) and both are now gone. While they wouldn't have helped us, it would have been nicer to use them in separate deals.

I have 5 arms in my bullpen right now.

CL- Lidge
R- Gordon
R- Madson
R- Mathieson
L- Happ

That is how you start to make a good bullpen. If we can get Romero for no more than 2.5 a year (ugh, I think that is way too much), that adds a second lefty and gives us a solid 6.

Agree on all your points, except I'd go slightly higher on Romero.

My biggest problem with this deal is that unless the Phillies have decided that Costanzo isn't going to make it, which seems very premature, we have again sold a big piece of he future for a one-year rental. I think both Bourn and Costanzo had a future with the Phillies, extending for half a decade and Geary was likely to be a serviceable middle reliever. I'm not big on this deal.

A 1 year rental and 2 first round draft picks. Or a multiyear deal. I can live with both.

Highly unlikely to get 2 first round draft picks. Although I see your point.

allentown wrote: I think both Bourn and Costanzo had a future with the Phillies, extending for half a decade and Geary was likely to be a serviceable middle reliever. I'm not big on this deal.

I think the key to this is to think when Bourn and Costanzo can most benefit our system (which is what trent was talking about). Bourn is in the show now, he's not going back down to AAA, so at most he is going to give us major league depth over the next 2-3 years. Maybe in that time he becomes a first team player, maybe he doesn't. so yes, we're losing depth, but I don't feel we're mortgaging the future, because his impact on the team is now (if he stays) - not in 5 years time.

Costanzo, harder to say. As someone pointed out tho' - he was having trouble with LHP in AA, so that's a concern - and makes you think that at best he would be a mixed bag at major league. There's nothing in his numbers that shouts out a lock of a prospect. So if he stayed and plays in the show in 2009/2010, would he have a huge impact? We're gambling that his future impact is going to be average at best in trading him, and since I couldn't see clear indicators that his future impact was going to be better than average, I'm okay with the gambe.

allentown wrote:

Disco Stu wrote:A 1 year rental and 2 first round draft picks. Or a multiyear deal. I can live with both.

Highly unlikely to get 2 first round draft picks. Although I see your point.

Yeah, but he's a type A this year, so he'd have to really stink up the joint next year to be type A again, no? and as a good closer he will be more highly prized and more likely to go to a team with deep pockets who in turn are more likely to be a team who has done well enough that we'd get their 1st round and a sandwich pick. That's me being slightly optimistic, but I don't think he's necessarily going to go to a tampa bay, so it's not unreasonable to expect 1st round and sandwich pick.

Wizlah wrote:

allentown wrote:
A 1 year rental and 2 first round draft picks. Or a multiyear deal. I can live with both.

Highly unlikely to get 2 first round draft picks. Although I see your point.

Yeah, but he's a type A this year, so he'd have to really stink up the joint next year to be type A again, no? and as a good closer he will be more highly prized and more likely to go to a team with deep pockets who in turn are more likely to be a team who has done well enough that we'd get their 1st round and a sandwich pick. That's me being slightly optimistic, but I don't think he's necessarily going to go to a tampa bay, so it's not unreasonable to expect 1st round and sandwich pick.[/quote]

Unless Lidge gets hurt or goes Eaton on the Phils, there is a 100% chance he will be a Type A next year. Lidge was ranked 15th in the Elias Rankings among 28 relief pitchers who were Type A. For Christ's sake, Tom Gordon will be a Type A next year if he stays healthy (he was the highest ranked B reliever).

Comments in the Houston Chronicle:

"Honestly, it's surprising, and it's kind of tough, but it's not shocking just because I knew going into the offseason this might happen. With a new GM, this is something that I knew I had to be prepared for. I didn't want to tell myself that I wasn't going to be traded."
.
.
"I'm not totally shocked, although I would say this: when you've been with one organization all your career, it is hard to be traded.

"I talked to Brad Ausmus. I've actually talked to Eric Bruntlett as well. It's kind of nice for us to do it together. We've both been with the Astros for close to 10 years. We both had never been traded. We both get to do this together, and that's kind of nice."

...and another feel-good comment from Wade:

"The deal was made with reluctance just from the standpoint we're trading our closer away, somebody that's got a great track record in Houston. I'm sure he's going to be a big boost to Philadelphia's bullpen."

Grotewold wrote:

JFLNYC wrote:Another way to put this trade into perspective: If the Astros had simply moved Bruntlett to CF and had him lead off they would likely have gotten about the same production, both offensively and defensively, as they'll get from Bourn.

Nice to benefit from another GM's irrational lust, for a change

Even nicer that Wade's stable blindness for Phillies has followed him to Houston.

The Red Tornado wrote:

drsmooth wrote:wasn't Bruntlett the name of the human version of the title character in one of the more recent remakes of The Fly (the one with Jeff Goldbloom)?

Nope

I bet brundle hits for more power than bruntlett

plus he can fly

drsmooth wrote:I bet brundle hits for more power than bruntlett

plus he can fly

Yeah, but no one wants to sit beside him when he's spitting baccy.

Paper/Philly.com call this a BLOCKBUSTER. I am not sure I agree with that statement. Good yes, BB, not. Maybe it is that the team finally did not get raped in a trade and that in and of itself is huge news.

Wizlah wrote:

drsmooth wrote:I bet brundle hits for more power than bruntlett

plus he can fly

Yeah, but no one wants to sit beside him when he's spitting baccy.

can others 'sit' suspended upside down from the dugout ceiling?

thephan wrote:Paper/Philly.com call this a BLOCKBUSTER. I am not sure I agree with that statement. Good yes, BB, not. Maybe it is that the team finally did not get raped in a trade and that in and of itself is huge news.

Hey, if it gets mentioned in the Sportscenter leadoff as "a major trade by a division champ" and they're not talking about Boston, I guess it's decent...

Phillies have now had their hands on 5 1st round draft picks from 1998: Lidge, Burrell, Drew, Valent, Rowand.

This has been said before, but we've gained a #2 starter in this trade in Myers. That's what makes it a blockbuster. Again, I don't like seeing Costanzo go, but I wonder what it is we're losing.

...just a warning, people liked the Gio-Gavin trade.

That warning has been addressed numerous times. I feel like the gypsy from The Wolfman is here.

Somehow I got through the proxy thing here at school (usually blocked by Websense)... damn Gillick and his late night trades.

Looks like a good deal to me. To be honest I thought Bourn was going to net a back-end starter, someone like Jose Contreras. To get a closer out of this is pretty shocking to me. Geary, as has been said, has a mediocre K/9 rate and seemed to be pretty lucky over his years here. I won't miss him too much. Costanzo seemed to have trouble hitting off speed pitching. I guess we're going to be waiting at least 5 or 6 more years until we see a 3B come through our system.

Harry Monroe wrote:This has been said before, but we've gained a #2 starter in this trade in Myers. That's what makes it a blockbuster. Again, I don't like seeing Costanzo go, but I wonder what it is we're losing.

...just a warning, people liked the Gio-Gavin trade.

Some people didn't like that trade.