Election Day Thread

by **jerseyhoya** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 15:01:15

Off to ESPN Zone, weeeee

Every day should be election day.

by **Philssj** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 15:03:45

I just heard Hillary Clinton say that the Dems deserve to win big b/c they have to clean up the mess made by the Republicans. Last time I checked the Congress, which is controlled by Hillary's party, is the lowest rated ever. They have had a couple of years to try to clean things up and have done virtually nothing. Of course people will say that is b/c Bush will veto it, he has only used that once in 8 years.

It has to scare everyone that the Nancy Pelosi's and Barney Frank's of the world are going to have even more power starting tomorrow. UGH

by **Monkeyboy** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 15:03:54

jerseyhoya wrote:I forgot about the vaunted King County GOP machine's notorious election stealing apparatus. I mean, Bush won just about 1/3 of the vote there!

They had three recounts. Each time they found a couple hundred more votes for Gregoire in King County. Rossi was ahead for like a month after the election. None of the other counties in the state had such big swings. They discovered 700+ absentee ballots in King County in the middle of December , and decided to count them by a 2-1 vote. Gregoire ended up winning by 129 votes.

BUT were they real ballots? That's the only relevant question, IMO. If they were real, then they should have been counted. I assume there weren't more ballots counted in the end than people who voted, or am I wrong about that? IOW, if those found ballots didn't lead to more votes cast than were actually cast, and the Kerry/Bush ratio of those votes roughly matched the rest of the votes from that area, then I think it's pretty safe to assume they were real and valid ballots. The fact that they went lost or missing is really a separate question.

And it only takes 1 person to carry a box of ballots and hide it. I don't know why a dem would hide ballots from a dem leaning area, do you?

I do agree, however, that it's crazy that ballots were lost in the first place and it took so long to find them.

by **Monkeyboy** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 15:04:53

cartersDad26 wrote:
Monkeyboy wrote:Is Campbell Brown hot or is it just me?

smoking hot

Glad to see I'm not the only fan.

by **Monkeyboy** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 15:11:15

Philssj wrote:I just heard Hillary Clinton say that the Dems deserve to win big b/c they have to clean up the mess made by the Republicans. Last time I checked the Congress, which is controlled by Hillary's party, is the lowest rated ever. They have had a couple of years to try to clean things up and have done virtually nothing. Of course people will say that is b/c Bush will veto it, he has only used that once in 8 years.

It has to scare everyone that the Nancy Pelosi's and Barney Frank's of the world are going to have even more power starting tomorrow. UGH

Well, the GOP is running one of the most obstructionist minorities in history, so it's hard to get anything done. That's why getting to 60 senators is so important -- it would allow the dems to override the filibusters.

Someone, I believe it was Dajafi, mentioned that he wasn't sure if he wanted the dems to get to 60 because they would be allowed to move quickly on things without a way for the GOP to slow them down. I would usually agree with that, but I have a feeling Obama can be trusted not to run amok like the GOP did (thanks to 9/11 and a lack of dem confrontation rather than the 3/5 majority). He's repeatedly shown restraint, so I'm willing to give him a shot because I think there's a ton of stuff that needs to be undone from the past 8 years and anything under 60 will make that difficult with the GOP filibuster crew.

by **Camp Holdout** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 15:18:21

Philssj wrote:I just heard Hillary Clinton say that the Dems deserve to win big b/c they have to clean up the mess made by the Republicans. Last time I checked the Congress, which is controlled by Hillary's party, is the lowest rated ever. They have had a couple of years to try to clean things up and have done virtually nothing. Of course people will say that is b/c Bush will veto it, he has only used that once in 8 years.

It has to scare everyone that the Nancy Pelosi's and Barney Frank's of the world are going to have even more power starting tomorrow. UGH

i think a lot of times people forget about that silly little thing going on over in the desert that financially handcuffs everyone, yes even that "democratically controlled congress".

it's like that old tired line of "it's the economy, stupid" that never gets old... should now be "it's the war... (but i would never call a fellow bsg'er stupid!)"

by **BuddyGroom** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 15:19:42

Monkeyboy wrote:

Well, the GOP is running one of the most obstructionist minorities in history, so it's hard to get anything done. That's why getting to 60 senators is so important -- it would allow the dems to override the filibusters.

I heard this morning on the radio that the Republicans did 92 filibusters during the current Congress. The previous record for a single Congress was 60.

by **BuddyGroom** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 15:21:27

jerseyhoya wrote:I forgot about the vaunted King County GOP machine's notorious election stealing apparatus. I mean, Bush won just about 1/3 of the vote there!

They had three recounts. Each time they found a couple hundred more votes for Gregoire in King County. Rossi was ahead for like a month after the election. None of the other counties in the state had such big swings. They discovered 700+ absentee ballots in King County in the middle of December , and decided to count them by a 2-1 vote. Gregoire ended up winning by 129 votes.

If the Democrats just created fake ballots, then you have a point, of course. Is there any evidence pointing to that?

Otherwise, what are you suggesting. That the Democrats hid ballots from friendly precincts in case they needed them later - that makes no sense.

by **Philssj** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 15:27:22

Camp Holdout wrote:
Philssj wrote:I just heard Hillary Clinton say that the Dems deserve to win big b/c they have to clean up the mess made by the Republicans. Last time I checked the Congress, which is controlled by Hillary's party, is the lowest rated ever. They have had a couple of years to try to clean things up and have done virtually nothing. Of course people will say that is b/c Bush will veto it, he has only used that once in 8 years.

It has to scare everyone that the Nancy Pelosi's and Barney Frank's of the world are going to have even more power starting tomorrow. UGH

i think a lot of times people forget about that silly little thing going on over in the desert that financially handcuffs everyone, yes even that "democratically controlled congress".

it's like that old tired line of "it's the economy, stupid" that never gets old... should now be "it's the war... (but i would never call a fellow bsg'er stupid!)"

The war is a burden no doubt, but she voted for it along with Biden, Kerry and scores of other dems and Gop's. Things need to improve in this country no doubt, maybe Obama is the one to do it, but I think people have bought into him so heavily that a major letdown is in store for a lot of people.

by **Woody** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 15:31:20

I just realized I'm wearing a bright blue shirt today.

by **Camp Holdout** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 15:37:01

Philssj wrote:
Camp Holdout wrote:
Philssj wrote:I just heard Hillary Clinton say that the Dems deserve to win big b/c they have to clean up the mess made by the Republicans. Last time I checked the Congress, which is controlled by Hillary's party, is the lowest rated ever. They have had a couple of years to try to clean things up and have done virtually nothing. Of course people will say that is b/c Bush will veto it, he has only used that once in 8 years.

It has to scare everyone that the Nancy Pelosi's and Barney Frank's of the world are going to have even more power starting tomorrow. UGH

i think a lot of times people forget about that silly little thing going on over in the desert that financially handcuffs everyone, yes even that "democratically controlled congress".

it's like that old tired line of "it's the economy, stupid" that never gets old... should now be "it's the war... (but i would never call a fellow bsg'er stupid!)"

The war is a burden no doubt, but she voted for it along with Biden, Kerry and scores of other dems and Gop's. Things need to improve in this country no doubt, maybe Obama is the one to do it, but I think people have bought into him so heavily that a major letdown is in store for a lot of people.

maybe true. i think (i HOPE) people have realistic expectations and realize it may take a year or two to even begin to turn this ship around.

and the war votes... you know that is a whole other can of worms. and the democratically controlled congress has been trying to vote to cut funding for it pretty much since it began, so i think it can't be brushed off so easily as "well, they voted to authorize the war in the first place." since we all know the conditions and pretenses of that vote may have been... less than honest.

in any case, i think its legit and appropriate for the democrats to say "let us try to fix this, we really haven't had a real chance."

by **Camp Holdout** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 16:02:47

by **Monkeyboy** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 16:04:44

Oh, I'm sure Obama will do things that I won't like. He already has. I'm just looking for movement in a completely different direction and he's the only chance of that happening.

When the GOP goes back to acting like conservatives (balanced budgets, staying out of people's personal lives, not starting wars, etc), I'm sure I'll vote for them a fair share of the time.

by **steagles** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 16:05:17

wow. obama really makes an ugly white man.

both are really kinda creepy, though.

by **seke2** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 16:07:09

voted in east norriton, almost no line around noon. the poll volunteers said the line was very long early on when the polls opened though. took the wife and i about 10 minutes.

by **phdave** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 16:09:53

Monkeyboy wrote:Is Campbell Brown hot or is it just me?

Both of you are quite attractive.

by **MrsVox** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 16:27:47

Went after picking VoxJr up at the bus stop. One person in front of me, lots of seniors milling about mucking up the lines. Had to chase the kids out of the booth -- the lady running it said that one kid pushed the "Cast Vote" button (bright red, at kid level) before the dad was done.

by **stevemc** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 16:39:56

raining in Chester County now. I wonder if this has any effect and if so - who it would benefit/hurt. If it's only west of the city (which it looks like on the radar), I'd imagine that would hurt McCain.

by **MrsVox** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 16:41:09

Oh, I forgot, there was a thingy on our door when I got home earlier today, a reminder to vote, sponsored by the local Dems with a number for free rides to the polls.

by **phdave** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 16:43:24

Monkeyboy wrote:
Philssj wrote:I just heard Hillary Clinton say that the Dems deserve to win big b/c they have to clean up the mess made by the Republicans. Last time I checked the Congress, which is controlled by Hillary's party, is the lowest rated ever. They have had a couple of years to try to clean things up and have done virtually nothing. Of course people will say that is b/c Bush will veto it, he has only used that once in 8 years.

It has to scare everyone that the Nancy Pelosi's and Barney Frank's of the world are going to have even more power starting tomorrow. UGH

Well, the GOP is running one of the most obstructionist minorities in history, so it's hard to get anything done. That's why getting to 60 senators is so important -- it would allow the dems to override the filibusters.

Someone, I believe it was Dajafi, mentioned that he wasn't sure if he wanted the dems to get to 60 because they would be allowed to move quickly on things without a way for the GOP to slow them down. I would usually agree with that, but I have a feeling Obama can be trusted not to run amok like the GOP did (thanks to 9/11 and a lack of dem confrontation rather than the 3/5 majority). He's repeatedly shown restraint, so I'm willing to give him a shot because I think there's a ton of stuff that needs to be undone from the past 8 years and anything under 60 will make that difficult with the GOP filibuster crew.

I posted this chart before but here goes again. It was made in July last year and shows the amount of filibustering being done in the 110th congress:

Seven months into the current two-year term, the Senate has held 42 "cloture" votes aimed at shutting off extended debate — filibusters, or sometimes only the threat of one — and moving to up-or-down votes on contested legislation. Under Senate rules that protect a minority's right to debate, these votes require a 60-vote supermajority in the 100-member Senate.

Democrats have trouble mustering 60 votes; they've fallen short 22 times so far this year. That's largely why they haven't been able to deliver on their campaign promises.

By sinking a cloture vote this week, Republicans successfully blocked a Democratic bid to withdraw combat troops from Iraq by April, even though a 52-49 Senate majority voted to end debate.

This year Republicans also have blocked votes on immigration legislation, a no-confidence resolution for Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and major legislation dealing with energy, labor rights and prescription drugs.

Nearly 1 in 6 roll-call votes in the Senate this year have been cloture votes. If this pace of blocking legislation continues, this 110th Congress will be on track to roughly triple the previous record number of cloture votes — 58 each in the two Congresses from 1999-2002, according to the Senate Historical Office.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., forced an all-night session on the Iraq war this week to draw attention to what Democrats called Republican obstruction.

"The minority party has decided we have to get to 60 votes on almost everything we vote on of substance," said Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo. "That's not the way this place is supposed to work."

Even Sen. Trent Lott, R-Miss., who's served in Congress since 1973, complained that "the Senate is spiraling into the ground to a degree that I have never seen before, and I've been here a long time. All modicum of courtesy is going out the window."

There were 134 cloture motions as of September 18, 2008. It's hard to use the veto when the Republicans are making sure most of the bills are not getting through.

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Election Day Thread