Manny will be a Phillies (version 3.11)

by **WilliamC** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:16:44

ReadingPhilly wrote:is his salary for this season more than their entire payroll?

Manny's lunch today was more than the Marlins payroll.

I think there payrolls was only like 22 million but I am not sure

by **jp_chips** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:18:12

Philly the Kid wrote:
jp_chips wrote:How are we overmatched when we have been battling for 1st place the last three years.If your measuring stick is Bos.,NYY,NYM,LAA or Cubs then your right we are overmatched against their fan base,and their TV contracts.Those teams have more resources than us.Until we get more of a national audience an a TV station that can supply more of an income we will have to stay somewhere around the budget we have now.

So its just money. This ownership group/front-office has been to one WS in 25 years, and 1 playoffs other than that. They have been saddled with some real bad contracts. Made some terrible moves and lacked a long term vision or a track record of success. I don't see it that they took a 75 win team and got it to 86. I see a 95-100 win team that has been stuck at 86-88. That is medicority and it's a lot more than TV contracts. This is 2008 and there are ways to generate revenue and make the team more valuable and more loved. But winning trumps everything.

With some better planning and more realistic look at this roster in the off-season, with a better understanding of what Cholly costs them, they might have a 5-10 game lead rather than hanging on hoping other teams self-destruct worse.

No its not just money,but more money can help fix more mistakes yes?I think the problem is we magnify every move and quote this team makes[edit not problem does make this more worth while

].but until you can magnify everyother team in the majors as much as we magnify the phils its hard to say how many other managers make in game mistakes or their mangement throws one of their players under the bus.

since the phillies moved into there new ballpark this teams budget has increased so they are moving in the right direction.

by **FTN** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:25:35

Will Carroll of Baseball Prospectus says the Red Sox, Pirates and Marlins have agreed to a three-team Manny Ramirez deal, pending Ramirez waiving his no-trade clause and league approval.

Carroll, not normally one of our preferred sources, has the Red Sox getting Jason Bay and John Grabow; the Marlins acquiring Ramirez, cash and a prospect from the Red Sox and the Pirates picking up Jeremy Hermida, two prospects from the Marlins and one from Boston.

by **kenrosenthal** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:26:05

jacobs pulled from marlins game according to carroll

by **LongDrive** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:27:27

kenrosenthal wrote:jacobs pulled from marlins game according to carroll

The game has been over for 30 minures

by **Philly the Kid** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:28:14

jp_chips wrote:
Philly the Kid wrote:
jp_chips wrote:How are we overmatched when we have been battling for 1st place the last three years.If your measuring stick is Bos.,NYY,NYM,LAA or Cubs then your right we are overmatched against their fan base,and their TV contracts.Those teams have more resources than us.Until we get more of a national audience an a TV station that can supply more of an income we will have to stay somewhere around the budget we have now.

So its just money. This ownership group/front-office has been to one WS in 25 years, and 1 playoffs other than that. They have been saddled with some real bad contracts. Made some terrible moves and lacked a long term vision or a track record of success. I don't see it that they took a 75 win team and got it to 86. I see a 95-100 win team that has been stuck at 86-88. That is medicority and it's a lot more than TV contracts. This is 2008 and there are ways to generate revenue and make the team more valuable and more loved. But winning trumps everything.

With some better planning and more realistic look at this roster in the off-season, with a better understanding of what Cholly costs them, they might have a 5-10 game lead rather than hanging on hoping other teams self-destruct worse.

No its not just money,but more money can help fix more mistakes yes?I think the problem is we magnify every move and quote this team makes[edit not problem does make this more worth while ].but until you can magnify everyother team in the majors as much as we magnify the phils its hard to say how many other managers make in game mistakes or their mangement throws one of their players under the bus.

since the phillies moved into there new ballpark this teams budget has increased so they are moving in the right direction.

The windows are narrow. Rolen Abreu and Schill, long gone and past their primes. Will Rollins ever exceed last year? Will Howard exceed what he did a couple years ago? Between injury and cost to keep a core group together, it's imperative that an organization know when the moment has arrived and go no holds barr to make it happen. Telling us Adam Eaton and Kyle Kendrick were 2 of our starters and that Myers was ready to be our #2 guy, are not signs of getting it. Jenkins, So, Ruiz... the list goes on and on. I don't expect 8 All-stars, I expect good baseball sense and a realistic appraisal of the roster. And to build on the special window oftime with this core group while they can.

by **kenrosenthal** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:29:24

LongDrive wrote:
kenrosenthal wrote:jacobs pulled from marlins game according to carroll

The game has been over for 30 minures

exactly

according to carroll

by **Trent Steele** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:29:52

LongDrive wrote:
kenrosenthal wrote:jacobs pulled from marlins game according to carroll

The game has been over for 30 minures

He was pulled before the 7th inning in a wierd switch. Cantu went to 1st, Amezaga played 3rd. Could have been for defense since Cantu blows at 3B and Jacobs made an out in the prior inning

by **wehatetolose42** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:30:34

+Lidge/Bruntlett for Geary, Bourn, Costanzo, whatever else we sent them)
+Extending Lidge
+Dobbs
+Taguchi (thought it was a decent move at the time)
+Letting Rowand go
+Jenkins (solely for the fact he could provide power off the bench, and he isn't a terrible outfielder)
+Trading Thome for Rowand, Gio
+Signing Romero (I know at first I didn't like it that much and I still think last year was his career 2 months, but he's valuable as a lefty specialist. He's not the setup man they want to make him)
+Pedro Feliz (we knew what we were getting and we're getting what we expected. He wouldn't look as bad if Carlos Ruiz was not batting behind him)
+Getting Shane Victorino in the Rule 5 draft
+Kyle Lohse trade (hard to give them a negative on not retaining him because they did offer him a fair deal that looked like a bad deal because of Adam Eaton).
+Moyer (largely due his ability to teach the rest of the staff his intelligence moreso than his pitching)
+Werth (didn't know what we'd get, but he's panned out well.)
+Durbin (if they truly meant to sign him as a reliever. I thought he had decent stuff to be a good LR, but he's become a great 6-7th inning guy)
+Signing Davey Lopes to coach first base.
+Cheap trade for Iguchi
+getting rid of headcase Padilla

-Wes Helms, Nunez to play third (Nunez did play good defensively)
-David Bell
-Rod Barajas
-Trading Floyd, Gio for Garcia, a pitcher who was injured and we were too lazy to give him a physical
-Unwillingness to draft Rick Porcello because they knew they had to pay him (same goes for a lot of teams)
-Jose Mesa
-Antonio Alfonseca
-Ryan Franklin
-Adam Eaton and keeping him on the team to start this year and having him remain on the team still.
-the other 400 waiver wire type pitchers we tried to plug into the bullpen and they didn't pan out
-Arthur Rhodes
-Signing Tom Gordon to be a closer and not a setup man
-Accepting a shitty offer for Bobby Abreu and Cory Lidle (not one player from that trade is in our system, except Matt Smith who is restarting his minor league career).
-Moving Ryan Madson out of the bullpen
-Trading our top hitting position player and a LHP with decent stuff for Joe Blanton
-Not giving Happ a longer shot.
-causing riffs between the organization and Cole Hamels and Ryan Howard (should have extended Howard after the MVP year), now it seems too late. I understand they didn't have to, but it probably should have been the right thing to do to save face for the franchise.
-being okay with Brett Myers has "1a" or "1b" (now, I know no one expected this, but he never looked like front-end starter material, but more like a decent #3 or a very good #4.
-Not letting go of Gillick when they already know he's not coming back next year.
-Basically penciling in Ruben Amaro, Jr. as his replacement and a guy that is already considered the GM.
-Rudy Seanez
-Not going after any other LH relievers in FA or via trade.
-Extending Charlie Manuel for 2 years, which he got solely off a nice comeback in the year and a Mets collapse. There were signs of him being fired over the 2 years of his contract. Now, I don't think Manuel is terrible, but he's makes a lot head-scratching decisions (pulling Burrell every game), etc.
-Keeping Steve Smith as the third base coach
-Moving Lieber to the bullpen, back to the rotation, to the DL

Indifference moves
-Tejeda for Dellucci

As you can tell, most of the negatives have to deal with pitching

by **FTN** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:33:17

Jacobs back in for Florida

by **Trent Steele** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:34:41

i cant read that crap its too jumbled with the format and not enough punctuation and too much stream of what im not sure what the topic is

by **kenrosenthal** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:35:42

Trent Steele wrote:i cant read that crap its too jumbled with the format and not enough punctuation and too much stream of what im not sure what the topic is

i think the + means positive moves and -means negative. i dont really understand how the moves were determined positive or negative tho

by **karn** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:36:28

plus on taguchi? neutral on dellucci (obvious good move)??

by **FTN** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:37:16

tehayda

by **jerseyhoya** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:37:23

kenrosenthal wrote:
Trent Steele wrote:i cant read that crap its too jumbled with the format and not enough punctuation and too much stream of what im not sure what the topic is

i think the + means positive moves and -means negative. i dont really understand how the moves were determined positive or negative tho

Coin flips are a tried and true method.

by **stevelxa476** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:37:43

Wasn't Bell a Wade signing?

by **Woody** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:37:57

kenrosenthal wrote:
Trent Steele wrote:i cant read that crap its too jumbled with the format and not enough punctuation and too much stream of what im not sure what the topic is

i think the + means positive moves and -means negative. i dont really understand how the moves were determined positive or negative tho

a complicated double blind algorithm involving heuristic ass pullage

by **FTN** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:38:21

Bell took beef 'roids

by **kenrosenthal** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:38:57

stevelxa476 wrote:Wasn't Bell a Wade signing?

yes

by **kenrosenthal** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:39:49

ESPN's Peter Gammons believes the three-team Manny Ramirez talks will stretch into Thursday and that a deal is still unlikely to be completed.

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Manny will be a Phillies (version 3.11)