Manny will be a Phillies (version 3.11)

by **FTN** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:05:02

this thread is mediocre

by **jp_chips** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:05:12

Woody wrote:Lidle is gone, too. Don't forget him.

but not forgotten...not forgotten :cry:

by **Woody** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:05:27

CrashburnAlley wrote:
Woody wrote:Lidle is gone, too. Don't forget him.

All he ever did was gamble and eat ice cream.

[/Arthur Rhodes]

I'll bet Arthur Rhodes attended his funeral

by **Philly the Kid** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:06:18

jp_chips wrote:How are we overmatched when we have been battling for 1st place the last three years.If your measuring stick is Bos.,NYY,NYM,LAA or Cubs then your right we are overmatched against their fan base,and their TV contracts.Those teams have more resources than us.Until we get more of a national audience an a TV station that can supply more of an income we will have to stay somewhere around the budget we have now.

So its just money. This ownership group/front-office has been to one WS in 25 years, and 1 playoffs other than that. They have been saddled with some real bad contracts. Made some terrible moves and lacked a long term vision or a track record of success. I don't see it that they took a 75 win team and got it to 86. I see a 95-100 win team that has been stuck at 86-88. That is medicority and it's a lot more than TV contracts. This is 2008 and there are ways to generate revenue and make the team more valuable and more loved. But winning trumps everything.

With some better planning and more realistic look at this roster in the off-season, with a better understanding of what Cholly costs them, they might have a 5-10 game lead rather than hanging on hoping other teams self-destruct worse.

by **WilliamC** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:06:23

dajafi wrote:
kenrosenthal wrote:
dajafi wrote:Moyer, Lidge, Werth, Lohse, Iguchi, Romero, Rowand. Throw in Durbin if you like.

For all we like to rip on Gillick, his track record really isn't bad.

you are correct, the role players he has picked up have been great (the people above). but when you trade away your number 1 prospect (cardenas) for a fat pitcher, trade GIO and GAVIN for an injured pitcher, and trade an above average RF for CJ Henry, people are always going to complain

That's all true. Not arguing he's been spotless by any stretch, and the due diligence--on Garcia especially but other guys too--often has been lacking.

Dobbs was also not bad as a pickup. Gillick is really good at the non-headliner pickup. I agree with pretty much everything you say. He has had his share of bad but I'd say the good has outweighed it.

by **karn** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:06:36

FTN wrote:this thread is mediocre

IT CERTAINLY HASN'T MADE MY DICK HARD

by **Trent Steele** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:07:16

Pretty awful trade for Fla

by **FTN** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:07:23

Gammons helped Jason Bay get dressed when he played on the Cape

by **stevelxa476** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:08:44

Philly the Kid wrote:
jp_chips wrote:How are we overmatched when we have been battling for 1st place the last three years.If your measuring stick is Bos.,NYY,NYM,LAA or Cubs then your right we are overmatched against their fan base,and their TV contracts.Those teams have more resources than us.Until we get more of a national audience an a TV station that can supply more of an income we will have to stay somewhere around the budget we have now.

So its just money. This ownership group/front-office has been to one WS in 25 years, and 1 playoffs other than that.

They have been to 2. They owned the team in '83

by **Philly the Kid** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:09:11

Seriously --

is there any reason Corey Lidle needs to be part of conversation like this. Its really disrespectful to the guys memory, family, etc...

by **CrashburnAlley** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:09:46

Philly the Kid wrote:Seriously --

is there any reason Corey Lidle needs to be part of conversation like this. Its really disrespectful to the guys memory, family, etc...

It's disrespectful to misspell Cory's name. :wink:

by **ReadingPhilly** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:10:03

Philly the Kid wrote:Seriously --

is there any reason Corey Lidle needs to be part of conversation like this. Its really disrespectful to the guys memory, family, etc...

he was involved in a sucky sucky trade made by our general manager

by **dajafi** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:10:33

WilliamC wrote:
dajafi wrote:
kenrosenthal wrote:
dajafi wrote:Moyer, Lidge, Werth, Lohse, Iguchi, Romero, Rowand. Throw in Durbin if you like.

For all we like to rip on Gillick, his track record really isn't bad.

you are correct, the role players he has picked up have been great (the people above). but when you trade away your number 1 prospect (cardenas) for a fat pitcher, trade GIO and GAVIN for an injured pitcher, and trade an above average RF for CJ Henry, people are always going to complain

That's all true. Not arguing he's been spotless by any stretch, and the due diligence--on Garcia especially but other guys too--often has been lacking.

Dobbs was also not bad as a pickup. Gillick is really good at the non-headliner pickup. I agree with pretty much everything you say. He has had his share of bad but I'd say the good has outweighed it.

Yup, forgot about Dobbs.

More broadly, the Wade-era Phillies fell short because the dropoff from the best five or six guys to the worst was enormous. They still have a few guys who don't contribute much--Seanez, Taguchi--but I think roster spots, say, #10 through #20 are a lot better now than three years ago.

by **Philly the Kid** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:10:43

ReadingPhilly wrote:
Philly the Kid wrote:Seriously --

is there any reason Corey Lidle needs to be part of conversation like this. Its really disrespectful to the guys memory, family, etc...

he was involved in a sucky sucky trade made by our general manager

Whatever, you guys know what I'm getting at.

by **karn** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:11:25

Well then his memory should stand up like a man and defend itself OH WAIT, IT CAN'T, IT'S A MEMORY

As for his family: my endless condolences. Who could have thought that a millionaire athlete was a double-agent kamikaze for the terrorists. Tragic.

by **FTN** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:11:32

Philly the Kid wrote:
ReadingPhilly wrote:
Philly the Kid wrote:Seriously --

is there any reason Corey Lidle needs to be part of conversation like this. Its really disrespectful to the guys memory, family, etc...

he was involved in a sucky sucky trade made by our general manager

Whatever, you guys know what I'm getting at.

ted williams' kids ate his head, does that mean we shoulkdnt talk about him in greatest redass of all time debates?

by **BigEd76** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:14:03

so is Manny going to approve this one where he might finish in 3rd?

by **karn** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:14:57

Everybody wants to play in Miami; nobody wants to play for the Marlins

by **ReadingPhilly** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:15:25

is his salary for this season more than their entire payroll?

by **Woody** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 22:15:56

Manny likes art deco, and gay cubans

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Manny will be a Phillies (version 3.11)