Werthless wrote:To this layperson, lockdowns seem more problematic than the requirement of face coverings in public places.

Werthless wrote:To this layperson, lockdowns seem more problematic than the requirement of face coverings in public places.

TenuredVulture wrote:

Werthless wrote:To this layperson, lockdowns seem more problematic than the requirement of face coverings in public places.

I don't know what things are like where you live, but around here, I'm pretty sure I'd be arrested if I went outside without pants.

JFLNYC wrote:

Werthless wrote:To this layperson, lockdowns seem more problematic than the requirement of face coverings in public places.

Those are the same people who don’t understand that no right is absolute and that with rights come responsibility.

thephan wrote:My mother-in-law's over the moon today Florida is opening up around her. If they are doing this it must be over. I am scared for her.

Monkeyboy wrote:This has the ring of truth to me. Some doctors believe the virus is attacking the endothelium. It would explain a lot of strange symptoms, as well as death rates among those with certain previous conditions.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020042 ... 19-mystery

Swiggers wrote:

Monkeyboy wrote:This has the ring of truth to me. Some doctors believe the virus is attacking the endothelium. It would explain a lot of strange symptoms, as well as death rates among those with certain previous conditions.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020042 ... 19-mystery

I write about cardiology, and a lot of cardiologists I've been in contact with believe this to be the case.

To go along with this, a report came out from France that patients with COVID-19 have much greater prevalence of pulmonary embolism (blood clots in the lungs) than other patients in the ICU without COVID-19.

Swiggers wrote:

Monkeyboy wrote:This has the ring of truth to me. Some doctors believe the virus is attacking the endothelium. It would explain a lot of strange symptoms, as well as death rates among those with certain previous conditions.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020042 ... 19-mystery

I write about cardiology, and a lot of cardiologists I've been in contact with believe this to be the case.

To go along with this, a report came out from France that patients with COVID-19 have much greater prevalence of pulmonary embolism (blood clots in the lungs) than other patients in the ICU without COVID-19.

On Sunday, April 4th, Tatiana Prowell, a doctor at Johns Hopkins, messaged me on Twitter. She forwarded an e-mail from a radiologist in Los Angeles, along with a CT scan of a young patient’s lung, with a golf-ball-size clot. An unusual finding was cropping up in patients with severe sars-CoV-2 infections: blood clots in the lung, called pulmonary emboli (P.E.s), and strokes caused by clots in the brain. Some were tiny, nearly undetectable, and some were huge. “I think this is a major unrecognized cause of mortality,” Prowell wrote. “My phone is full of msgs from physicians from every specialty asking if others are also seeing unexpected thromboembolic events in young, healthy patients with covid-19. Neurologists getting consulted for stroke, cardiologists finding large clots on echocardiograms, nephrologists noticing dialysis catheters clotting, radiologists finding PEs on scans. I think there is a slow collective awakening to the fact that this is not an isolated phenomenon.”

In fact, the “slow collective” awakening was already well under way—elsewhere. Chinese doctors had apparently seen such blood clots, and started giving patients blood thinners to prevent them. (“Why are American doctors so resistant to learning from excellent Chinese doctors who . . . have been on the front line longer,” someone admonished me on Twitter.) One patient—a man in his twenties—texted me a picture of bluish spots on his thighs, evidently a scattering of minuscule clots in the skin. I e-mailed a doctor in London; in autopsies, he told me, “we are finding micro-emboli, small clots, in the lungs.” During the next few days, my in-box and my Twitter feed brimmed with notes from doctors and researchers remarking on these findings, and wondering about trials for virus-infected patients and blood thinners.


Is this loose, informal transmission of anecdotal findings—call it chatter, call it rumor—part of medicine? It isn’t what anyone is taught in medical school; it doesn’t fit in with the professional’s image as a purveyor of rigorously tested interventions. But continuous, iterative clinical knowledge—the kind that can be updated minute by minute—is invaluable during this tumult, when time is of the essence and there’s scant research to fall back on. Such updates are like weather reports in the middle of a storm. They matter in the moment; once the storm passes, they’re yesterday’s news. covid-19 has similarities to familiar conditions, but it is a new condition and, like all new conditions, it has its peculiarities. When doctors exchange notes on their experiences—about an odd incidence of blood clots, about a ventilator setting that seems easier on the lungs, about the results of putting patients in a prone position in order to ease breathing—they can adjust treatments and improve patient outcomes. Not every provisional finding will pan out. Medical chatter can prove misguided, just as there’s plenty of bunk in open research archives. Still, anecdotal patterns can lay the groundwork for a case series, and then a case-control study, and, ultimately, a randomized, controlled trial of a clinical approach. Already, observations that began as scattered tweets about emboli in covid-19 cases have migrated into preprint journal articles, Webinars, and official recommendations from professional bodies.

swishnicholson wrote:

Swiggers wrote:

Monkeyboy wrote:This has the ring of truth to me. Some doctors believe the virus is attacking the endothelium. It would explain a lot of strange symptoms, as well as death rates among those with certain previous conditions.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020042 ... 19-mystery

I write about cardiology, and a lot of cardiologists I've been in contact with believe this to be the case.

To go along with this, a report came out from France that patients with COVID-19 have much greater prevalence of pulmonary embolism (blood clots in the lungs) than other patients in the ICU without COVID-19.

This is a broad ranging article by Siddhartha Mukherjee from this week's New Yorker (I always like reading his stuff about medicine)that features a discussion of PEs. Good read in general about future of health care in America going forward, and what we've learned, or haven't.

Plus, I'm already on blood thinners, so I got that going for me.

On Sunday, April 4th, Tatiana Prowell, a doctor at Johns Hopkins, messaged me on Twitter. She forwarded an e-mail from a radiologist in Los Angeles, along with a CT scan of a young patient’s lung, with a golf-ball-size clot. An unusual finding was cropping up in patients with severe sars-CoV-2 infections: blood clots in the lung, called pulmonary emboli (P.E.s), and strokes caused by clots in the brain. Some were tiny, nearly undetectable, and some were huge. “I think this is a major unrecognized cause of mortality,” Prowell wrote. “My phone is full of msgs from physicians from every specialty asking if others are also seeing unexpected thromboembolic events in young, healthy patients with covid-19. Neurologists getting consulted for stroke, cardiologists finding large clots on echocardiograms, nephrologists noticing dialysis catheters clotting, radiologists finding PEs on scans. I think there is a slow collective awakening to the fact that this is not an isolated phenomenon.”

In fact, the “slow collective” awakening was already well under way—elsewhere. Chinese doctors had apparently seen such blood clots, and started giving patients blood thinners to prevent them. (“Why are American doctors so resistant to learning from excellent Chinese doctors who . . . have been on the front line longer,” someone admonished me on Twitter.) One patient—a man in his twenties—texted me a picture of bluish spots on his thighs, evidently a scattering of minuscule clots in the skin. I e-mailed a doctor in London; in autopsies, he told me, “we are finding micro-emboli, small clots, in the lungs.” During the next few days, my in-box and my Twitter feed brimmed with notes from doctors and researchers remarking on these findings, and wondering about trials for virus-infected patients and blood thinners.


Is this loose, informal transmission of anecdotal findings—call it chatter, call it rumor—part of medicine? It isn’t what anyone is taught in medical school; it doesn’t fit in with the professional’s image as a purveyor of rigorously tested interventions. But continuous, iterative clinical knowledge—the kind that can be updated minute by minute—is invaluable during this tumult, when time is of the essence and there’s scant research to fall back on. Such updates are like weather reports in the middle of a storm. They matter in the moment; once the storm passes, they’re yesterday’s news. covid-19 has similarities to familiar conditions, but it is a new condition and, like all new conditions, it has its peculiarities. When doctors exchange notes on their experiences—about an odd incidence of blood clots, about a ventilator setting that seems easier on the lungs, about the results of putting patients in a prone position in order to ease breathing—they can adjust treatments and improve patient outcomes. Not every provisional finding will pan out. Medical chatter can prove misguided, just as there’s plenty of bunk in open research archives. Still, anecdotal patterns can lay the groundwork for a case series, and then a case-control study, and, ultimately, a randomized, controlled trial of a clinical approach. Already, observations that began as scattered tweets about emboli in covid-19 cases have migrated into preprint journal articles, Webinars, and official recommendations from professional bodies.

thephan wrote:Down in #FreeTexas over in #FreeDallas, things are not rosy. Yesterday They matched their largest total yet in new cases and deaths. 5 deaths including a man in his 20s, and 134 new cases. Last week they had 5 deaths total and one was high school aged.

Warszawa wrote:At this point without the lessening of “stay at home” orders this country will continue to move towards a point of no return economically

Layoffs of municipal workers will increase, basic services will start to be affected. Landlord and small business bankruptcies will accelerate. Evictions are looming. That is when the shit gets real. There is no sign of additional Federal relief on the horizon. You can’t shut the economy down forever regardless of the number of cases