From Summit to Plummet - Politics Thread

by **thephan** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 07:47:19

slugsrbad wrote:So cut the nose to spite the face?

How about do something thoughtfully over doing something to do something. This "fix" was not well thought through. When I was in the world of tips there were variable rates for various roles. For bussers and dishwashers it was hardly fair wages, and that should be addressed. While that is being fixed, covering cook staff is also important. Service staff can make 70K+ in tips in town, and DC is "in town". It does potentially hurt more then help, especially with restaurant owners who might either rethink their business plans, some choosing to go out of business. The WP position is well described. The editorial is well through through too.

by **thephan** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 07:55:31

Trump is reported to bring up Invankna @ the immigration meeting saying that she demanded that this situation end. In case anyone thinks she has sway, there is no change. Also, if anyone thinks Trump could not end it, get your head out of your ass.

Related, "the GOP" thinks that this is a winning issue for them. With liberal snowflakes, and foreign leaders talking about this shows strength! It is another facet besides the tax cuts. The "base" is eating it up. I wish this were sourced so you can tell where the cancer is.

by **thephan** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 08:13:04

Trump headed out on an 8 day road trip to find the love he can't get at home. Get ready for 8 crazy nights. Who knows what he will do, say or tweet over these coming days. He will get fired up, and slather some serious whack-a-doodle when his people get him going, and with back-to-backs he is going to get going. Belt up.

by **CalvinBall** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 09:18:13

Steve Schmidt has given up on the Republican party.

by **thephan** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 09:26:22

CalvinBall wrote:Steve Schmidt has given up on the Republican party.

He's been in a slow decline for a while. Truth be told, the party has given up on his values and moved on to being a cult. Maybe a movement given how many people have been liberated by not needing to be constrained by political correctness allowing them to make their inner dark side their outer shell (or klan robe). "Good Republicans" should slide into the independent orbit and fight for a clear sighted America for all. I truly believe that the middle is a better representation of the true nature of the US, and it would be more admirable to represent the actual majority who want the best for the whole.

by **pacino** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:20:56

slugsrbad wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
slugsrbad wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Just voted for the 1st time in 3 years. Of the 7 offices on the ballot, one had a Republican running. Thriving local party.

Only went to vote to vote against the tipped minimum wage hike on the ballot.

Yea, heaven forbid wait staff have their lively hoods determined by something other than the mood of the jackasses they have to serve.

Wait staff is already guaranteed minimum wage of $12.50 if tips don't get them to $12.50. This will require restaurants to pay tipped employees minimum wage BEFORE tips, which is going to completely #$!&@ restaurants which already operate on tight margins.

I mean, I don't want to get too into the weeds of running a business (since I would be even more out of my league than normal), but if they're required to cover the gap already, shouldn't they be budgeting the worst case scenario to be safe? Or are the margins so tight that they roll the dice and hope their staff is tipped well enough to cover their own assess?

I do like the that policy as opposed to the normal #$!&@ you to wait staff, but I still don't think anyone should feel beholden to tips to make/guarantee a living.

this is the major reason I'm for it. food service utterly distorts the rights of a worker. everyone deserves a full wage that isn't reliant on the whims of a supposed aggrieved party.

by **threecount** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:56:28

Please tell me that the Democrats aren't going to cave and allow funding to go through for the wall...

I don't even think the Republicans have the votes on their own for either bill to pass the House...

My hope is that Trump will crack under pressure and just use an executive order to end the children separations..

by **slugsrbad** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:59:54

threecount wrote:Please tell me that the Democrats aren't going to cave and allow funding to go through for the wall...

I don't even think the Republicans have the votes on their own for either bill to pass the House...

My hope is that Trump will crack under pressure and just use an executive order to end the children separations..

Funding the wall is irrelevant and reversible. If you can get DACA extension or pathway to citizenship + stopping the family separation zero tolerance policy just for a shit ton of money for the wall you do it. Then, if you feel like it, you just defund the wall at the next budget crisis.

by **Werthless** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:00:39

pacino wrote:
slugsrbad wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
slugsrbad wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Just voted for the 1st time in 3 years. Of the 7 offices on the ballot, one had a Republican running. Thriving local party.

Only went to vote to vote against the tipped minimum wage hike on the ballot.

Yea, heaven forbid wait staff have their lively hoods determined by something other than the mood of the jackasses they have to serve.

Wait staff is already guaranteed minimum wage of $12.50 if tips don't get them to $12.50. This will require restaurants to pay tipped employees minimum wage BEFORE tips, which is going to completely #$!&@ restaurants which already operate on tight margins.

I mean, I don't want to get too into the weeds of running a business (since I would be even more out of my league than normal), but if they're required to cover the gap already, shouldn't they be budgeting the worst case scenario to be safe? Or are the margins so tight that they roll the dice and hope their staff is tipped well enough to cover their own assess?

I do like the that policy as opposed to the normal #$!&@ you to wait staff, but I still don't think anyone should feel beholden to tips to make/guarantee a living.

this is the major reason I'm for it. food service utterly distorts the rights of a worker. everyone deserves a full wage that isn't reliant on the whims of a supposed aggrieved party.

That's not what the bill does, though. Did you read the linked editorial in the times? I'm skeptical that it will be a net benefit for the sector, although some servers will surely benefit.

by **pacino** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:01:28

if the Democrats withhold every vote a bill can still pass the House. let's hope they do if it includes funding for his damn wall.

let's either have real immigration reform or a clean bill on this horrendous practice.

Also, Sessions could simply stop it; this is trump using children as bargaining chips and the democrats would be very dumb to agree to these terms. Chuck Schumer seems pretty bad at his job in the Senate, so who knows.

by **pacino** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:03:15

slugsrbad wrote:
threecount wrote:Please tell me that the Democrats aren't going to cave and allow funding to go through for the wall...

I don't even think the Republicans have the votes on their own for either bill to pass the House...

My hope is that Trump will crack under pressure and just use an executive order to end the children separations..

Funding the wall is irrelevant and reversible. If you can get DACA extension or pathway to citizenship + stopping the family separation zero tolerance policy just for a #$!&@ ton of money for the wall you do it. Then, if you feel like it, you just defund the wall at the next budget crisis.

you are bargaining on their terms if you accept that crap and you are permanently criminalizing the border instead of starting a real process

this is a fight the Republicans should have amongst themselves since they created the fucking problem

by **pacino** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:10:32

Werthless wrote:
pacino wrote:
slugsrbad wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
slugsrbad wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Just voted for the 1st time in 3 years. Of the 7 offices on the ballot, one had a Republican running. Thriving local party.

Only went to vote to vote against the tipped minimum wage hike on the ballot.

Yea, heaven forbid wait staff have their lively hoods determined by something other than the mood of the jackasses they have to serve.

Wait staff is already guaranteed minimum wage of $12.50 if tips don't get them to $12.50. This will require restaurants to pay tipped employees minimum wage BEFORE tips, which is going to completely #$!&@ restaurants which already operate on tight margins.

I mean, I don't want to get too into the weeds of running a business (since I would be even more out of my league than normal), but if they're required to cover the gap already, shouldn't they be budgeting the worst case scenario to be safe? Or are the margins so tight that they roll the dice and hope their staff is tipped well enough to cover their own assess?

I do like the that policy as opposed to the normal #$!&@ you to wait staff, but I still don't think anyone should feel beholden to tips to make/guarantee a living.

this is the major reason I'm for it. food service utterly distorts the rights of a worker. everyone deserves a full wage that isn't reliant on the whims of a supposed aggrieved party.

That's not what the bill does, though. Did you read the linked editorial in the times? I'm skeptical that it will be a net benefit for the sector, although some servers will surely benefit.

I've read a lot on it; I'd imagine a good portion of places will eventually simply start paying the full minimum wage and not encourage tipping. this is going to help a to of servers on the lower end of the scale and hurt a few high-end servers. this is going to put strain on the places that are run poorly and do harm their workers or pay them like crap. Prices will likely rise a little in response but not to the extent that servers see more money in their pockets. i think it will help more than it hurts, and i'm for that.

by **jerseyhoya** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:10:53

slugsrbad wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
slugsrbad wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Just voted for the 1st time in 3 years. Of the 7 offices on the ballot, one had a Republican running. Thriving local party.

Only went to vote to vote against the tipped minimum wage hike on the ballot.

Yea, heaven forbid wait staff have their lively hoods determined by something other than the mood of the jackasses they have to serve.

Wait staff is already guaranteed minimum wage of $12.50 if tips don't get them to $12.50. This will require restaurants to pay tipped employees minimum wage BEFORE tips, which is going to completely fuck restaurants which already operate on tight margins.

I mean, I don't want to get too into the weeds of running a business (since I would be even more out of my league than normal), but if they're required to cover the gap already, shouldn't they be budgeting the worst case scenario to be safe? Or are the margins so tight that they roll the dice and hope their staff is tipped well enough to cover their own assess?

I do like the that policy as opposed to the normal fuck you to wait staff, but I still don't think anyone should feel beholden to tips to make/guarantee a living.

No, you're not budgeting for the worst case scenario because most of the time they're making that in tips.

Let's say you own a small bar/restaurant. It's open from 11 AM to 2 AM daily. You average 3 servers/bartenders - nights and weekends more, but during the day shift there's just 2. That's 45 hours a day times an extra $9.17 an hour times 365. That's over $150,000 a year in new costs just in salary. As the minimum wage goes to $15 from $12.50, it is an extra $190k in hourly wages.

What do you think the outcome of this is going to be?

by **pacino** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:14:39

jerseyhoya wrote:
slugsrbad wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
slugsrbad wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Just voted for the 1st time in 3 years. Of the 7 offices on the ballot, one had a Republican running. Thriving local party.

Only went to vote to vote against the tipped minimum wage hike on the ballot.

Yea, heaven forbid wait staff have their lively hoods determined by something other than the mood of the jackasses they have to serve.

Wait staff is already guaranteed minimum wage of $12.50 if tips don't get them to $12.50. This will require restaurants to pay tipped employees minimum wage BEFORE tips, which is going to completely #$!&@ restaurants which already operate on tight margins.

I mean, I don't want to get too into the weeds of running a business (since I would be even more out of my league than normal), but if they're required to cover the gap already, shouldn't they be budgeting the worst case scenario to be safe? Or are the margins so tight that they roll the dice and hope their staff is tipped well enough to cover their own assess?

I do like the that policy as opposed to the normal #$!&@ you to wait staff, but I still don't think anyone should feel beholden to tips to make/guarantee a living.

No, you're not budgeting for the worst case scenario because most of the time they're making that in tips.

Let's say you own a small bar/restaurant. It's open from 11 AM to 2 AM daily. You average 3 servers/bartenders - nights and weekends more, but during the day shift there's just 2. That's 45 hours a day times an extra $9.17 an hour times 365. That's over $150,000 a year in new costs just in salary. As the minimum wage goes to $15 from $12.50, it is an extra $190k in hourly wages.

What do you think the outcome of this is going to be?

i don't see how we should subsidize a restaurant by keeping their workers' wages artificially low in comparison to other businesses in the area that pay a higher minimum wage. the benefits of a lower tipped wage aren't very persuasive to me. *shrugs*

wouldn't it be cool if this is all politics was and we didn't have to defend democracy from a creeping authoritarian cult?! :lol:

by **JUburton** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:15:03

No idea how Europe and other areas of the world operate restaurants without patrons being the primary payer of servers. They should all close.

by **slugsrbad** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:18:34

jerseyhoya wrote:
slugsrbad wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
slugsrbad wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Just voted for the 1st time in 3 years. Of the 7 offices on the ballot, one had a Republican running. Thriving local party.

Only went to vote to vote against the tipped minimum wage hike on the ballot.

Yea, heaven forbid wait staff have their lively hoods determined by something other than the mood of the jackasses they have to serve.

Wait staff is already guaranteed minimum wage of $12.50 if tips don't get them to $12.50. This will require restaurants to pay tipped employees minimum wage BEFORE tips, which is going to completely fuck restaurants which already operate on tight margins.

I mean, I don't want to get too into the weeds of running a business (since I would be even more out of my league than normal), but if they're required to cover the gap already, shouldn't they be budgeting the worst case scenario to be safe? Or are the margins so tight that they roll the dice and hope their staff is tipped well enough to cover their own assess?

I do like the that policy as opposed to the normal fuck you to wait staff, but I still don't think anyone should feel beholden to tips to make/guarantee a living.

No, you're not budgeting for the worst case scenario because most of the time they're making that in tips.

Let's say you own a small bar/restaurant. It's open from 11 AM to 2 AM daily. You average 3 servers/bartenders - nights and weekends more, but during the day shift there's just 2. That's 45 hours a day times an extra $9.17 an hour times 365. That's over $150,000 a year in new costs just in salary. As the minimum wage goes to $15 from $12.50, it is an extra $190k in hourly wages.

What do you think the outcome of this is going to be?

In your scenario higher prices and if they cannot meet the new demands, the business will shut down. There will always be demand for restaurants and bars though, so businesses will either survive or new businesses will arise under the new normal. Or DC will become a culinary wasteland of just chain restaurants and fast food joints.

by **thephan** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:23:36

JUburton wrote:No idea how Europe and other areas of the world operate restaurants without patrons being the primary payer of servers. They should all close.

Whole different model, but you knew that. That is why things like university in Germany is 5000 euro a year, insurance is single payer, and half of a pay check goes to the state. Rumor has it that the Turkish guys in the back are maybe not paid as well, or even up to German wage standard, and are stealing jobs from good German workers. Of course that last part is just what German's say, and not even the particular nationalist types.

by **thephan** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:26:50

slugsrbad wrote:In your scenario higher prices and if they cannot meet the new demands, the business will shut down. There will always be demand for restaurants and bars though, so businesses will either survive or new businesses will arise under the new normal. Or DC will become a culinary wasteland of just chain restaurants and fast food joints.

Or MD and VA will substantially benefit. Its not that far. The Colonial rules in VA and Provincial rules in MD might be a small problem, but not enough to create a boom.

by **pacino** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:29:53

WASHINGTON (AP) -- AP Sources: Homeland Security secretary drafting order to end family separation at border; unclear if Trump will sign it.

by **CalvinBall** » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:36:40

pacino wrote:
WASHINGTON (AP) -- AP Sources: Homeland Security secretary drafting order to end family separation at border; unclear if Trump will sign it.

despite eric erickson saying the people who yelled at her at dinner are brown shirts-- it looks like pressuring and peacefully humiliating people in power sometimes works

Archived

From Summit to Plummet - Politics Thread

Re: From Summit to Plummet - Politics Thread

Re: From Summit to Plummet - Politics Thread

Re: From Summit to Plummet - Politics Thread

Re: From Summit to Plummet - Politics Thread

Re: From Summit to Plummet - Politics Thread

Re: From Summit to Plummet - Politics Thread

Re: From Summit to Plummet - Politics Thread

Re: From Summit to Plummet - Politics Thread

Re: From Summit to Plummet - Politics Thread

Re: From Summit to Plummet - Politics Thread

Re: From Summit to Plummet - Politics Thread

Re: From Summit to Plummet - Politics Thread

Re: From Summit to Plummet - Politics Thread

Re: From Summit to Plummet - Politics Thread

Re: From Summit to Plummet - Politics Thread

Re: From Summit to Plummet - Politics Thread

Re: From Summit to Plummet - Politics Thread

Re: From Summit to Plummet - Politics Thread

Re: From Summit to Plummet - Politics Thread

Re: From Summit to Plummet - Politics Thread