Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby drsmooth » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:44:07

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:Doc, come on. You're better than this. What do you think "deprived of life" means if it's not referring to death?



you didn't get the memo. Strict textualism is in; interpretation is out.

I'm not a lawyer. I'm reading the words that are there in the text of the amendment. If a lawyer wants to tell me they're relying on what the words in the document literally say, then when they insist on a meaning that is not literally in those words, they have demonstrated that they believe what the words say, "ACTUALLY" mean something other than what the FUCKING words say.

And that, of course, requires a sane human being to recognise that what the words actually say can, and indeed must often, be interpreted by the reader - relying, I hope, on what they can glean from resources the author(s) of the words consulted in choosing the words they actually wrote down.

But then of course we're NOT being strictly textual. Which is good, because it means we're sane human beings living in the actual, dynamic, real world. That we're essentially, actively, fitting what we understand the guidance of our government's foundational documents to be telling us, to our circumstances in the world as it exists now.

But it also means we understand that interpretations of the words of those documents can and will justifiably differ. That there IS no single interpretation that is sacred, inviolable, undeniable. That insisting that there is, is a lie. A lie that no reasoning human being even pretends is true.
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Re: Gorsuch a Facist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby laf837 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:48:49

Luzinski's Gut wrote:I've had the displeasure of working with this clown.

He's a pompous #$!&@.

Thinks he can solve the problem of radical Islam with a few minor policy tweaks.

Reductionist thinking personified.


thephan wrote:Because I'm not a big consumer of Fox News I did not know this as shat, Sebastian Gorka. Nothing like some Russian nameed British accented pampas tool describing what a republic looks like. Because he basically goes on to describe something between a monarchy and a dictatorship. he clearly stated that executive orders are from the highest level of government and they must be respected and they must be acted on. Someone here clearly does not know how a republic works. He also seems to disbelieve the protest, it's not that they're not real, it's just that the election happened this is what we voted for so this is what we get, and it would seem that somehow the vote meant that we were giving up all of our liberties.


Heard him on NPR and he could not be more of an insufferable prick. Like hollywood movie-type dickhead. Holy moly was he a smirking, condescending, hand wave asshat.
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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby thephan » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:53:41

laf837 wrote:Heard him on NPR and he could not be more of an insufferable prick. Like hollywood movie-type dickhead. Holy moly was he a smirking, condescending, hand wave asshat.


I am sure that is where I heard him. I was on the road, so that make it likely. To your point, his smugness coupled with his tone sort of pulled him right out of central casting.
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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby JFLNYC » Wed Feb 01, 2017 13:08:24

Werthless wrote:
drsmooth wrote:
RichmondPhilsFan wrote:doc, IMO you're the one using an extremely tortured reading of the 5th Amendment. I'm not aware of any serious scholars who opine anything other than "liberty" referring to imprisonment and "life" referring to the death penalty.


I'm not a lawyer. I'm merely pointing out that if the words in the document are the only sacred point from which to determine their authors' intent, nowhere in that amendment does the word "death" appear.

But maybe my reading comprehension's failing me. Can you highlight where the word "death" DOES appear in the 5th amendment of the constitution of the United States?

Haha. If someone said a person was recently "deprived of life," I wouldn't think they were in jail.


Yeah, well you weren't married to my first wife.
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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby drsmooth » Wed Feb 01, 2017 13:09:16

thephan wrote:
laf837 wrote:Heard him on NPR and he could not be more of an insufferable prick. Like hollywood movie-type dickhead. Holy moly was he a smirking, condescending, hand wave asshat.


I am sure that is where I heard him. I was on the road, so that make it likely. To your point, his smugness coupled with his tone sort of pulled him right out of central casting.


Thought you all were making this individual up. He's a honey. This from his Wiki page:

Gorka was detained January 31, 2016 at the Ronald Reagan Airport in Washington D.C. for attempting to board a plane with a 9mm handgun in his luggage. Gorka was charged with a weapons offense. Gorka has pled guilty and will be sentenced on February 3, 2017


Is this even real? Waiting for the EO to absolve him of this 'luggage malfunction'
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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby pacino » Wed Feb 01, 2017 13:10:44

PSUsarge wrote:
thephan wrote:I was looking at a map of the Reading Line and thought that nothing is ever going to make Catawissa, Muncy, or Jersey Shore (the one in the middle of the Pennsylvania mountains) relevant again, much less great. How could it? All those towns built on Rails, Iron, and Coal as part of the Reading's flawed strategy seem to be firmly waiting for a comeback to the time of my Great Grandparents? That would be a lot of you Great-Great Grandparents. What will it take for Eagles Mere to realize its been had?

Reading Railroad System Map

As I've posted here in the past, I lived in parts of Central & Northeast PA for most of 2015. You are spot on.

While onshoring manufacturing wlll lead to some job creation, automation will also be a large part of those new/upgraded facilities. So even if ABC Steel Co. brings a plant (back) to Anytown, USA, the jobs the previous generations held at ABC Steel have probably since been automated in some way.

On one hand, I do empathize with the people in these areas. Though they are sometimes painted as racist, xenophobic hillbillies, they are fiercely loyal and incredibly welcoming (granted, I'm a white male) in other aspects. They want the best for their families and friends like we all do.

On the other hand, though, there is an enormous skills gap in the U.S. from a technology perspective. We are importing 3/4 of our graduate students in areas like computer science and electrical engineering, and I'm sure there are plenty of other examples. These "new" manufacturing jobs will be technology-based, and the best hope for a future of prosperity is to pursue that rather than trying to turn the clock back.

Also, for areas I know to be very genuine and no BS, the fact that they so fervently back Trump is mind-boggling. Tells you just how forgotten those areas feel, I think (re: my previous comments here about understanding their anxiety). It kind of reminds me of the Rain King episode of X-Files, if anyone remembers that.

Sorry to ramble, but this is a topic I am extremely interested in and have some feels about, it seems.

i live right in the middle of that map and the refusal to adjust to the new economy is strong with a good chunk of those that feel 'left behind' and also strong with some elected officials that need to stop trying to chase dirty manufacturing and throwing tax credits and all sorts of goodies at these companies. there are some good officials that realize the future. the weird thing is that a lot of our local/state policy over the past 30 years has been geared to trying to reclaim some heyday that never existed for a large portion of our society; they weren't left behind. I realize voting in the same people over and over again is bad, but they've done that against this cycle but have simply added a stick of dynamite on top of the pile. That aint a solution.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby drsmooth » Wed Feb 01, 2017 13:12:52

Werthless wrote:Haha. If someone said a person was recently "deprived of life," I wouldn't think they were in jail.


Why wouldn't "someone" not then just write "put to death", if that's what someone meant? It's less, y'know, subject to interpretation
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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby pacino » Wed Feb 01, 2017 13:14:13

there was a successful argument that corporations have religious feelings that can't be interfered with. anything's possible.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby JFLNYC » Wed Feb 01, 2017 13:14:39

Once we get rid of those pesky public schools just watch that skills gap decline.
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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby pacino » Wed Feb 01, 2017 13:16:30

thephan wrote:
laf837 wrote:Heard him on NPR and he could not be more of an insufferable prick. Like hollywood movie-type dickhead. Holy moly was he a smirking, condescending, hand wave asshat.


I am sure that is where I heard him. I was on the road, so that make it likely. To your point, his smugness coupled with his tone sort of pulled him right out of central casting.

he basically thinks we have to fight fire with fire in regards to ISIS. he's a breitbart-type guy.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby JFLNYC » Wed Feb 01, 2017 13:16:46

pacino wrote:there was a successful argument that corporations have religious feelings that can't be interfered with. anything's possible.


Since corporations are persons, if you dissolve one have you committed murder or would that be considered assisted suicide?
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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby JFLNYC » Wed Feb 01, 2017 13:18:07

pacino wrote:
thephan wrote:
laf837 wrote:Heard him on NPR and he could not be more of an insufferable prick. Like hollywood movie-type dickhead. Holy moly was he a smirking, condescending, hand wave asshat.


I am sure that is where I heard him. I was on the road, so that make it likely. To your point, his smugness coupled with his tone sort of pulled him right out of central casting.

he basically thinks we have to fight fire with fire in regards to ISIS. he's a breitbart-type guy.


Wonder where Gorsuch stands on beheadings.
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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby heyeaglefn » Wed Feb 01, 2017 13:25:47

I'm more concerned on the next SC nominee if Ruth has to step down in the next few years.

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby pacino » Wed Feb 01, 2017 13:26:41

feel like she'll live to 100

it's kennedy that wants to get out of there
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby swishnicholson » Wed Feb 01, 2017 13:47:38

jerseyhoya wrote:
Werthless wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:The death penalty is in the constitution

No it's not.

Its existence is expressly acknowledged in the 5th amendment.


I would say more like implied. There's certainly nothing there that expressly endorses its use.

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby thephan » Wed Feb 01, 2017 14:06:37

pacino wrote:
thephan wrote:
laf837 wrote:Heard him on NPR and he could not be more of an insufferable prick. Like hollywood movie-type dickhead. Holy moly was he a smirking, condescending, hand wave asshat.


I am sure that is where I heard him. I was on the road, so that make it likely. To your point, his smugness coupled with his tone sort of pulled him right out of central casting.

he basically thinks we have to fight fire with fire in regards to ISIS. he's a breitbart-type guy.



To FYP, he is a breitbart guy.

He worked there and thinks the world of Bannon. I am not sure, because I was not critically listening, if he mentioned Trump by name more then he did Bannon.
yawn

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby 06hawkalum » Wed Feb 01, 2017 14:09:24

Anyone think this RoguePOTUS Twitter account is legit?
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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby JUburton » Wed Feb 01, 2017 14:10:03

06hawkalum wrote:Anyone think this RoguePOTUS Twitter account is legit?
no

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby drsmooth » Wed Feb 01, 2017 14:20:25

RichmondPhilsFan wrote: I do know for certain that Jefferson wrote in support of the death penalty.


I do know for certain that Jefferson wrote, and said, and did a whole slew of things that many people, let alone most 'strict' conservatives, would regard as downright radical, if not completely depraved. Should we include in our textual examination all the resources Jefferson may have drawn on in his writings? His library, essentially, stocked the original Library of Congress. Where should we begin? Perhaps something from the Scottish Enlightenment philosopher Francis Hutcheson? No contemporary "conservative" is signing up for much of that.
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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby Grotewold » Wed Feb 01, 2017 14:22:19

JFLNYC wrote:Since corporations are persons, if you dissolve one


slow down Heisenberg

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