Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby Werthless » Wed Feb 01, 2017 14:28:56

drsmooth wrote:
RichmondPhilsFan wrote:Doc, come on. You're better than this. What do you think "deprived of life" means if it's not referring to death?



you didn't get the memo. Strict textualism is in; interpretation is out.

I'm not a lawyer. I'm reading the words that are there in the text of the amendment. If a lawyer wants to tell me they're relying on what the words in the document literally say, then when they insist on a meaning that is not literally in those words, they have demonstrated that they believe what the words say, "ACTUALLY" mean something other than what the FUCKING words say.

And that, of course, requires a sane human being to recognise that what the words actually say can, and indeed must often, be interpreted by the reader - relying, I hope, on what they can glean from resources the author(s) of the words consulted in choosing the words they actually wrote down.

But then of course we're NOT being strictly textual. Which is good, because it means we're sane human beings living in the actual, dynamic, real world. That we're essentially, actively, fitting what we understand the guidance of our government's foundational documents to be telling us, to our circumstances in the world as it exists now.

But it also means we understand that interpretations of the words of those documents can and will justifiably differ. That there IS no single interpretation that is sacred, inviolable, undeniable. That insisting that there is, is a lie. A lie that no reasoning human being even pretends is true.

I'll paraphrase, but is this the hill that you want to deprive yourself of life on? :)

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby slugsrbad » Wed Feb 01, 2017 14:32:44

lol
Quick Google shows that GoGo is wrong with regards to the Kiwi and the Banana.

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby td11 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 14:38:59

slugsrbad wrote:lol
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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby drsmooth » Wed Feb 01, 2017 14:50:54

Werthless wrote:I'll paraphrase, but is this the hill that you want to deprive yourself of life on? :)


"strict textualism" is at best stupid & at worst a lie. Is that better for you? Because you are someone I really expect to persuade
Yes, but in a double utley you can put your utley on top they other guy's utley, and you're the winner. (Swish)

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby The Nightman Cometh » Wed Feb 01, 2017 14:52:33

Nice excercise if you hate yourself: anytime you get excited about a big D year in 2018, look at the senate seats in play
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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby drsmooth » Wed Feb 01, 2017 14:58:35

Flynn comes on during press stooge Spicer's presser to condemn Iran's missile test and "put them on notice" - and makes a mean face

wow, you showed them, tough guy
Yes, but in a double utley you can put your utley on top they other guy's utley, and you're the winner. (Swish)

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby 06hawkalum » Wed Feb 01, 2017 14:58:57

The Nightman Cometh wrote:Nice excercise if you hate yourself: anytime you get excited about a big D year in 2018, look at the senate seats in play


That's what she said.
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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby CalvinBall » Wed Feb 01, 2017 15:10:41

collins the first R to say she is a NO on deVos


woo


need dems to hold strong.

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby JUburton » Wed Feb 01, 2017 15:11:29

Collins a No on DeVos.

Murkowski speaking now still 'has concern' and has 'serious concerns with someone so involved in only one side of the equation'. Now listing what DeVos still needs to show with respect to children who can't simply afford to or have the ability to go to a school of their choosing.

She's a no! Just confirmed on the floor.

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby Youseff » Wed Feb 01, 2017 15:13:26

I think my position on the election has shifted a lot, to and fro over the last months or a year. where I'm at now is that we deserve Trump. we are collectively a bad people, a largely uneducated and incurious people, and Trump is only a reflection of that.
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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby Brantt » Wed Feb 01, 2017 15:17:39

DeVos should not be confirmed.

She embarrassed both herself and anyone that supported her during her confirmation hearings.
"I don't think we're too far apart, Tom Brady and myself." - Matt McGloin
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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby Philly the Kid » Wed Feb 01, 2017 15:19:00

A bit frustrating the limited and often mainstream sources of "news" that is utilized by most on this board. There are other outlets and other streams of information and analysis. You could at least listen to Democracy Now every day it's only 1 hour.

One of the key points I heard about Gorsuch, not only that he's been very anti-worker and pro-corporate - and not that he's against Roe v Wade, not that he had radical anti-social progress rants in zines at Columbia in the late 80's - but that he's so erudite and clever, and experienced that he will not only rule against almost everything I believe in, but if Dems or any true progressive gets in to white house, he will have changed the way regulatory agencies operate. One way Obama got around a Republican congress, was to set direction with governmental agencies. Gorsuch doesn't believe in this - and feels ONLY congress can direct, not executive branch. Obviously, he's not going to mute Donald Duck, but he can become a blockade against future Dems, with this approach.

The reality is - that nothing is new. This so-called Democracy has never really been such. The hypocrisy has always been there. The inequality has always been there. There is a class divide and now a culture divide.


I live in California, and in the Bay Area. My personal circle, uses language like "locally sourced" "organic" "spiritual" "non-toxic" "fairness" "egalitarian". My people are for single-payer, and community gardens and solar panels, and dismantling of Monsanto and Chevron, and Citizen's United, and a massive reduction in military bloat, black budgets and massive restraint on corporations. Forcing companies like Apple to bring their profits back to American soil and pay their fair share of taxes.

But for 40 years there has been a coordinated effort to mesh the conservative heartland around a set of key social positions: anti-gay anti diversity anti-workers, pro-Christian (narrowly defined), and pro-big govt in terms of controlling the social landscape (think Singapore) and anti-govt when it comes to social safety and regulating abuses of transnationals and banking - (think Ayn Rand). With gerrymandering and other techniques we now sit in a time, where a narcissist ego-maniac (likely mentally ill) reality TV star, is the puppet-figure head that has allowed this coalition of modern day Carnegies and would-be-Theocrats and white nationalists - to take over every branch of govt. With the abuses of Executive Orders, and a congress that is not about representing anything other than their own personal agendas and those of a broad minority...

I truly believe that if every single person in America, 18 and older were polled on ever major issue, that the congress, prez and judiciary are all representing MINORITY interests. But even so -

As a Californian, I resent deeply that my state which brought you Intel Chips and Apple Tech and FB and Google and Twitter and IG - and Hollywood, and brings most of your lettuce in your salad, and Redwoods and on and on - that somehow I'm living a life controlled by Senators in Montana and Mississippi and Alabama?

I don't actually think it could or would happen but all the jokes on FB now about Calif and Pac NW joining Canada or seceding, I get it emotionally.

When I was in my early 20's I remember saying "it will have to get a lot worse to get better..." and "likely a lot of blood will be shed..." I anticipated civil war and a total fracturing of the mythology that is "Amereeka". And then i watched each bit unfold... firing all the air controllers w Reagan and Ollie North and Contras... then Carlisle group and Bush I, then Clinton brings us Nafta and Gatt and repeal of Glass Straggle, and Bush II gives us Patriot Act and endless war and Cheney Rumsfeld and who knows if 911 was even involved. And then Obama comes in, with this nice personality and dignified persona but he let's Wall Street off the hook, he brings his reactionary Univ Chic Economists - and misses his moment when he had the congress and then tries to play nice and fair with people that utterly hated him and all he stood for - a Black Man, a guy who wanted to do a little bit for the people - and they managed to twist the phrase "Obamacare" in to some kind of "red scare" trigger emotionally for half of America.

it's not sustainable to be a military power and be at war forever and intervening all over the world. It's not sustainable to expand the .01% and just too bad for everyone else. There is a day or reckoning. If you pollute every major water way and make the food supply entirely toxic and put everyone on pharma, you end up with a docile and sick populace that can't produce much or innovate. Life will become miserable for more and more people.

The protests are encouraging but the left is too fractured and factionalized. My oppression is worse than yours. My genocide was worse than yours.

I also believe they have been preparing for decades to put down any serious uprising. The cops and para-military and real-military will put it all down. But most people don't have the stomach for it. They still want to just party on the weekend, or hit the gym, or have a nice wedding...

I see no way out whereby through an honest press and good debate and honest elections - we can get to a positive future. Several states are working on new laws to make blocking traffic in a protest a felony and to even allow cars to run people down and not be charged for it! Yes, look in to it!

it's never been a fair democratic country. Women and people of color and at various times Jews, Italians, Irish have all be made "other", now its LGBTQ, people with dark skin from other parts of world, and there is still a deep deep hatred in the South for Black people - the vestiges of 160017001800s is still in play.

I'm sure there is no stopping this judge appointment. I'm sure there will be no filibuster. The Dems from the South aren't really progressives. And here we are.

The will of the people is not in effect, though many - and many of them are confused and distracted - but many people ARE getting their way, but they are not the majority. There is no concept in our culture for compromise and reasonability - it's winner take all and too bad for you.

This country would fracture if there was any attempt to start over with a clean slate. We have career politicians... lifers... why is Orrin Hatch determining a single damned thing impacting my life??

It's just a variation on the empires of the past. Figureheads, powerful henchmen behind the scenes. All of them hypocrites - talk one thing, then live a debauche lifestyle or some holier than though extremist thing...

There's actually enough resources for everyone to be fed good food, and get free medical, and spend most of our time trying to be creative and productive and good neighbors as we try to ward of the effects of entropy and make a better world, but in that model, there is no 1% or 5% let alone .01%. No one gets to have that much more than everyone else.

It's a different way of being on the planet.

But instead, we have this. People seizing power and putting their will on everyone else, too bad. Intellectuals and Artists being repressed. So the stupid lead with herds of sheep as their army to implement their power over the rest...

It will be really interesting as this year continues to unfold. It's going to get so so so ugly and I'm not sure there's enough time left in my life to counter-balance and undo what's happening right now and will keep happening.

Wait til you are taking a loyalty oath and everyone is afraid to write anything on social media that is critical of the emperor...

Name an empire in the history of the world that survived? Tell me how the modern day CEOs and Board of Directors are really any different than monarchs and Pharaohs? Extreme wealth, privilege and power....

Trump can spread some payola to the angry white man in Flint or West Virginia or Mississippi to become the boots on the ground busting heads... we'll see...

But if you want to have a serious discussion about any of this - get off CNN and NPR and the New York Times, because you aren't getting much there friends... there is far more information to be had a far more penetrating analyses to be found... it's not that hard to get there.

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby td11 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 15:22:42

drsmooth wrote:Flynn comes on during press stooge Spicer's presser to condemn Iran's missile test and "put them on notice" - and makes a mean face

wow, you showed them, tough guy


https://twitter.com/_ad_p/status/826868584173465601

Image

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby The Savior » Wed Feb 01, 2017 15:24:44

Brantt wrote:DeVos should not be confirmed.

She embarrassed both herself and anyone that supported her during her confirmation hearings.


We agree!!!
On a scale of 1 to Chris Brown, how pissed is he?

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby Werthless » Wed Feb 01, 2017 15:36:26

The Savior wrote:
Brantt wrote:DeVos should not be confirmed.

She embarrassed both herself and anyone that supported her during her confirmation hearings.


We agree!!!

Image

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby traderdave » Wed Feb 01, 2017 15:38:32

Assuming all Ds vote against (I guess you never know), I think one more R needs to cross the aisle. Surely the is one more R willing to pull their head out of their ass long enough to vote down this God awful nominee.

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby Werthless » Wed Feb 01, 2017 15:41:11

Youseff wrote:I think my position on the election has shifted a lot, to and fro over the last months or a year. where I'm at now is that we deserve Trump. we are collectively a bad people, a largely uneducated and incurious people, and Trump is only a reflection of that.

We might have the most informed general electorate of all time. Not sure how we'd measure that. The most educated, with the best access to information, with the highest IQs (probably, since IQs are slowly trending upward over time). Not sure if the blame can be placed on an incurious electorate here. Perhaps you're hinting at attitudes related to incuriousness -- for example, the downfall of the perception of "experts" -- that I could get behind.

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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby td11 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 15:43:57

traderdave wrote:Assuming all Ds vote against (I guess you never know), I think one more R needs to cross the aisle. Surely the is one more R willing to pull their head out of their ass long enough to vote down this God awful nominee.

@AlecMacGillis
DeVos nomination apparently coming down to Toomey. Amount contributed to him directly by DeVos family: $53,400. (Not counting party funds.)
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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby pacino » Wed Feb 01, 2017 15:48:18

so Murkowski also voted no

please be a non-stooge for once, Toomey


direct action works, btw
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Re: Gorsuch a Fascist, Mr. Trump - Politics Threat

Postby traderdave » Wed Feb 01, 2017 15:50:42

Maybe DeVos will see the writing on the wall and withdraw rather than suffer the embarrassment of getting voted down. Also, unless I am missing something, Mr. Russia Rex Tillerson was just confirmed as SoS.

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