Blanton for Aumont and Gillies would be hilarious, though. And realistically, makes tons more sense than Lee going their way. Why are we getting $6 million from Toronto? It seems like Blanton's number, not Lee's.

joe table wrote:

CFP wrote:I don't mind that deal that Elliott is talking about as long as Ramirez is in it. Gillies and Aumont for Lee is questionable. Adding in Ramirez makes it passable. Taking out Gillies and adding Saunders makes it slightly too good for us. Let's see which scenario plays out. I can't believe we're about to trade Cliff Lee for Phillippe Aumont and Tyson Gillies though.

Don't really get the Ramirez love, he had a 5+ FIP and mediocre K rate in high A last year

Have you ever seen him pitch?

FTN wrote:

joe table wrote:

CFP wrote:I don't mind that deal that Elliott is talking about as long as Ramirez is in it. Gillies and Aumont for Lee is questionable. Adding in Ramirez makes it passable. Taking out Gillies and adding Saunders makes it slightly too good for us. Let's see which scenario plays out. I can't believe we're about to trade Cliff Lee for Phillippe Aumont and Tyson Gillies though.

Don't really get the Ramirez love, he had a 5+ FIP and mediocre K rate in high A last year

Have you ever seen him pitch?

Have you?

CFP wrote:Blanton for Aumont and Gillies would be hilarious, though. And realistically, makes tons more sense than Lee going their way. Why are we getting $6 million from Toronto? It seems like Blanton's number, not Lee's.

I'm assuming because Halladay makes 16 mil, that's 16 mil over the budget, trade Lee, that's 9 mil, and get 6 mil, that's 15 mil total. So the owners are willing to go 1 mil over budget. Awesome.

blueclaw wrote:

HillMD wrote:

blueclaw wrote:If they were looking to save $9M, they should have just non-tendered Blanton and Durbin, rather than dump Lee for a deaf outfielder and a French-Canadian with bad mechanics. I don't think these rumors are 100% accurate...

Because Gillies being partially deaf has a lot to do with it. Jesus.

It's called sarcasm. I have nothing against the hearing impaired. He's just not a very good prospect - a heartwarming story perhaps, but a marginal prospect.

He hit .341 with speed and some power as a 20 year old in advanced A. That's a "marginal prospect"?

joe table wrote:

FTN wrote:

joe table wrote:

CFP wrote:I don't mind that deal that Elliott is talking about as long as Ramirez is in it. Gillies and Aumont for Lee is questionable. Adding in Ramirez makes it passable. Taking out Gillies and adding Saunders makes it slightly too good for us. Let's see which scenario plays out. I can't believe we're about to trade Cliff Lee for Phillippe Aumont and Tyson Gillies though.

Don't really get the Ramirez love, he had a 5+ FIP and mediocre K rate in high A last year

Have you ever seen him pitch?

Have you?

Have I?

Dude we nontendered Condrey. There's the million.

I've seen plenty of video on him. He sits 92-94 and his fastball has a ton of movement on it.

His 2008 was excellent in the MWL, where he was only 19; 113 K and 38 BB in 124 IP. Last season I throw out the window. High Desert is a nightmare. Thin air, 30+ MPH winds blowing out. I read an article about this over the summer, and I think it even mentioned Ramirez, where it said that guys tried to alter their approach, overthrow, because they wanted to strike everyone out and prevent contact. Its not just H/R splits, its about altering your approach everywhere. He was only 20, still young for advanced A ball.

Hes got a special arm. Easy velocity, a much better delivery/mechanics than Aumont. I like him a lot.

Ramirez's motion basically looks a little like Pedro's. Probably a good guy to copy off of being he's a national hero in the DR. Certainly better than Aumont's motion, which hopefully Dubee fixes once we give up Lee, Drabek, and Utley for him.

kimbatiste wrote:

joe table wrote:

FTN wrote:

joe table wrote:

CFP wrote:I don't mind that deal that Elliott is talking about as long as Ramirez is in it. Gillies and Aumont for Lee is questionable. Adding in Ramirez makes it passable. Taking out Gillies and adding Saunders makes it slightly too good for us. Let's see which scenario plays out. I can't believe we're about to trade Cliff Lee for Phillippe Aumont and Tyson Gillies though.

Don't really get the Ramirez love, he had a 5+ FIP and mediocre K rate in high A last year

Have you ever seen him pitch?

Have you?

Have I?

Haven't you?

Phillipe Aumont is here to sav the franchise

Special Lumberjack to the General Manager Matt Stairz wanted to make sure we had a Canadian in the system. That was his last wish.

My Scratch Pad V12:

To Sea: Lee

To TOR: Aumont, Triunfel, Taylor, D'Arnaud

To PHI: Halladay, TOR reliever, Gillies + $6MM

From Phillies Perspective:

Lee, Taylor, D'Arnaud

for

Halladay, TOR reliever, Gillies + $6MM

Keep Happ, Drabek & Brown.

2010 Rotation:

Halladay
Hamels
Blanton
Happ
Moyer/Kendrick

2011 Rotation:

Halladay
Hamels
Happ
Drabek
?

Note: Toronto sent Phillies to M's for prospects they wanted. Trading Lee gets them for Jays (Aumont, Triunfel), plus Gillies for Phils and frees up $9MM in salary. Jays get all pieces they wanted: Young starter, SS, C & OF. M's get their prize. Phils get Halladay, keep Blanton and Happ for this year. Drabek replaces Blanton next year.

If you assume Lee and Halladay are more or less a wash for 2010, Phils trade:

Taylor, D'Arnaud and a late 2011 first round and sandwich pick

for

TOR reliever, Gillies, $6MM and the right to sign Halladay for 2011-14/16.

Well if they are keeping Domonic at least that's good. I am pretty excited to see him play whenever he's ready. Seeing a 6'5 stud athlete in stirrups is going to blow people's minds

CFP wrote:Special Lumberjack to the General Manager Matt Stairz wanted to make sure we had a Canadian in the system. That was his last wish.

this trade isn't official until Stairs gives a Stone Cold Stunner to Elliott, Stark and Salisbury

Is there any way this turns out better than trading Drabek, Taylor, D'Arnaud, and Donald for Halladay last year would have?

We can lock this thing up,
it's Lee/Drabek/Taylor/D'arnaud for
Halladay, $6M, and 2-3 prospects floppy hates

Didn't the Jays ownership demand Brown, Drabek and Happ or nothing?

dajafi wrote:

blueclaw wrote:

HillMD wrote:

blueclaw wrote:If they were looking to save $9M, they should have just non-tendered Blanton and Durbin, rather than dump Lee for a deaf outfielder and a French-Canadian with bad mechanics. I don't think these rumors are 100% accurate...

Because Gillies being partially deaf has a lot to do with it. Jesus.

It's called sarcasm. I have nothing against the hearing impaired. He's just not a very good prospect - a heartwarming story perhaps, but a marginal prospect.

He hit .341 with speed and some power as a 20 year old in advanced A. That's a "marginal prospect"?

He played last year in High Desert, which inflates offensive statistics, and he only had 1 homer away from home. He's a Michael Bourn type player - ridiculously fast with a good OBP and zero power. To me, Gose has more upside, and I'm not a big Gose fan.

why would they trade d'Arnaud and Marson in the same deal?