hoya wrote:Is there any way this turns out better than trading Drabek, Taylor, D'Arnaud, and Donald for Halladay last year would have?

Sure, when it turns out we are trading Blanton to Seattle, not Lee.

I was happier when I thought we were getting him for Kendrick and Mayberry

blueclaw wrote:

dajafi wrote:

blueclaw wrote:

HillMD wrote:

blueclaw wrote:If they were looking to save $9M, they should have just non-tendered Blanton and Durbin, rather than dump Lee for a deaf outfielder and a French-Canadian with bad mechanics. I don't think these rumors are 100% accurate...

Because Gillies being partially deaf has a lot to do with it. Jesus.

It's called sarcasm. I have nothing against the hearing impaired. He's just not a very good prospect - a heartwarming story perhaps, but a marginal prospect.

He hit .341 with speed and some power as a 20 year old in advanced A. That's a "marginal prospect"?

He played last year in High Desert, which inflates offensive statistics, and he only had 1 homer away from home. He's a Michael Bourn type player - ridiculously fast with a good OBP and zero power. To me, Gose has more upside, and I'm not a big Gose fan.

He had a bunch of triples too, his bat is ahead of Gose's by miles regardless of the league he's playing in

Goddammit people, I just finished reading the first thread. Should I bother reading this whole thing?

this is our finest hour(s)

phatj wrote:Goddammit people, I just finished reading the first thread. Should I bother reading this whole thing?

no... dont read any of it.

phatj wrote:Goddammit people, I just finished reading the first thread. Should I bother reading this whole thing?

no. almost everyone but grotewold hates the deal. it is what you thought it was

I want this to be the deal:

TORONTO trades Halladay to the Phillies, $7M to the Mariners
SEATTLE trades 2 Prospects to Toronto
PHILADELPHIA trades Brown, D'Arnaud, Happ to Toronto, Blanton & Victorino to the Mariners.

That would make so much sense for everybody IMHO. Seattle would have one of the better defensive outfields in baseball; with that big ballpark, they'd need it. They could shift Ichiro to LF if he's lost a step and have a credible RFer to replace him. They also got terrible production out of LF last year, though things got a little better for them when they got Langerhans I guess. Vic would definitely stabilize that for them. Seattle would also get a little $$ to make up for the difference between getting Lee and getting Blanton + Victorino.

Toronto would get their prospects, and lots of them. Toronto would give up $7M - but they're apparently willing to pay out some money for a bigger, better prospect haul - and, best of all from their perspective, they wouldn't have to sell paying Halladay to pitch somewhere else in 2010. They'd be giving the money to the Mariners.

And the Phillies get to keep Lee while also getting Halladay, and promotes Taylor to play for Vic (which I think works out as a plus for the Phils personally).

Perfect.

So, if this is the deal, then it'd be a stellar move for Seattle. Aumont could well turn into a closer and Gillies is pretty interesting, but to get one of the game's top five pitchers for those two would be a flat-out steal and it's incredible that the Phillies couldn't do better elsewhere.

Things also look a better for the Blue Jays. Drabek isn't without risk, but he's one of the game's top-10 pitching prospects. With his legitimate No. 1 or No. 2 starter potential, he's a big upgrade from Aumont.

As for the Phillies, well, the price for Halladay is certainly fair, but they're not getting nearly enough in return for Lee. That's quite a bit of talent they're bleeding for what should be a very modest upgrade in 2010. They definitely have their eyes on 2011 here, as Halladay's extension will be quite a bit more reasonable than what Lee was requesting. Still, I don't think it was worth sacrificing Drabek's potential to get the swap done. There should have been a more reasonable deal available if they had let the league know that Lee was up for grabs.

http://bases.nbcsports.com/2009/12/mari ... l.html.php

pretty much sums it up.

Brown, D'Arnaud, Happ, Blanton and Victorino for Halladay? Good thing you aren't the GM.

I can't imagine Amaro would have tendered Durbin a contract if this deal was in the works.

Tyson Gillies was not a high round draft pick, nor was he a highly rated prospect heading into the 2009 season. But that hasn’t stopped him from establishing himself as one of the most exciting players in the minors. His speed is game changing and he plays as if his hair’s on fire. But there is one thing holding him back from reaching his ceiling of a solid everyday outfielder: his power.

Link

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQu6xBVfmz8[/youtube]

Skip Bayless:

Don't know final details, but sounds like Mariners are about to steal Cliff Lee.
.
.
weird trade. Not sure what the benefit is from Lee to Halladay for Phillies. It's like they just making deal 2 make deal

Tools

JFLNYC wrote:he plays as if his hair’s on fire. But there is one thing holding him back from reaching his ceiling of a solid everyday outfielder: his power.

Totally not where I thought that was going...[/b]

JFLNYC wrote:Tyson Gillies was not a high round draft pick, nor was he a highly rated prospect heading into the 2009 season. But that hasn’t stopped him from establishing himself as one of the most exciting players in the minors. His speed is game changing and he plays as if his hair’s on fire. But there is one thing holding him back from reaching his ceiling of a solid everyday outfielder: his power.

Link

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQu6xBVfmz8[/youtube]

Bonafacio Lite

BTW, I'm still stuck on the idea that, supposedly, Seattle wants 2 pitchers this off-season... would the Phillies trading them Blanton and Happ (who reportedly "were in town for physicals" though who knows if that is true or relevant) for some prospects be that far fetched?

The Lee to Seattle aspect of stuff still seems shaky to me and sources indicating it don't see very reliable with the info surrounding it (like who would come back in return). And I find it hard to believe we'd be trading Lee to the M's unless we are getting a stud package in return (at least 2 good prospects and a throw-in) -- there's no reason we couldn't shop Lee and his $9M contract around to the other 28 teams in baseball. He should have pretty high trade value.

whew finally made it to the end...

Skip Bayless is an asshat

its hilarious that this trade is so fucking awful that everyone is still looking for ways fot it not to be true

SideshowBob wrote:BTW, I'm still stuck on the idea that, supposedly, Seattle wants 2 pitchers this off-season... would the Phillies trading them Blanton and Happ (who reportedly "were in town for physicals" though who knows if that is true or relevant) for some prospects be that far fetched?

The Lee to Seattle aspect of stuff still seems shaky to me and sources indicating it don't see very reliable with the info surrounding it (like who would come back in return). And I find it hard to believe we'd be trading Lee to the M's unless we are getting a stud package in return (at least 2 good prospects and a throw-in) -- there's no reason we couldn't shop Lee and his $9M contract around to the other 28 teams in baseball. He should have pretty high trade value.

It's very shaky, maybe ownership mandated that he clear the money before finishing the Halladay deal?

Hell, why not wait on Polanco, save his six million for this and wait out one of the dozen or so 3B still left out there