Uncle Milty wrote:

Shore wrote:

Uncle Milty wrote:

stevemc wrote:I was considering the "mental" exercise above. Would it make sense if you got a young #1 or #2 starter from an organization not willing to pay a late arbitration figure (or someone under contract) for Rhys and supplemented with a Rendon signing and Bohm to 1B, are we on a more solid foundation?

Absolutely for a solid, controllable #2. If you're guaranteeing a Rendon signing, I'd do it for a #3.

Trading Hoskins for a #3, so that Alec Bohm can play 1B for you, is a nightmare scenario, IMO.

Where did I say trade him for a #3 so Bohm can play 1B? The idea was that Rendon & a solid, controllable #3 > Rhys.

It's in the post you quoted and agreed with: "supplemented with a Rendon signing and Bohm to 1B".

Rendon > Rhys, anyway, so this is a weak comparison. It's allocation of assets. Take Rhys's rare and valuable skills, while they are underpaid relative to market value, and supplement them. Let him go when the cost approaches or surpasses the value. But don't trade him pre-arb unless you're getting something OUTSTANDING in return. Not a Brad-Keller-level starter.

thephan wrote:Inky did a good comparison of Rendon or Cole. As much as I love Rendon's hard nosed play, and tangible results, it has to be Cole. Pitching is aneed for the team, and Rendon would block Bohm for more then the $200M contract he will get. Then you could have the pitching tandem of Co-la (marketing already). Actually I think I would pitch Cole and Nola like 1 & 3 to assure that no team could get skipped punishment due to scheduling (looking @ the Boston 2 game series).

Shouldn't really be a direct comparison, IMO. A better comparison would be...

Cole+Bohm -vs- Rendon+X (where X=whatever SP you could get in a trade for Bohm)

Impossible to answer without knowing X and the required contracts to land Cole / Rendon

Just out of curiosity, do we know if Rendon wants to play with -- and for less than -- Harper?

I don't see how you can do another $200M contract with JT about to get $100M+

Grotewold wrote:Just out of curiosity, do we know if Rendon wants to play with -- and for less than -- Harper?

Probably wants to switch leagues because of Nolan

Not really a fan of signing Rendon because he'll be 30 next season and only really broke out in his age 27-29 seasons. Seems like a guy who could fall off pretty rapidly. For comparison, through his age 26 season he had a .777 OPS while Harper (currently in his age 26 season) had a career .896 OPS entering today.

It's not completely ridiculous to have concerns about Kingery going forward. If he isn't hitting, he's basically a guaranteed out. He needs to cut down the strikeouts (think he's 3rd in MLB in K%) and has to walk more so when he slumps he's not a total black hole on offense.

Having said that, if going forward this is what he is for his career, he still provides a lot of value for this team. Can play any position and can be a league-average hitter on a team-friendly contract. He had a better season than I thought he was going to have.

It's also why it's good to have Cesar next year. Because it doesn't matter if Kingery can play every position if when he plays another position you have someone like SRod at 2B.

Cool, year 3 of having no idea what to do with Kingery. Sign me up.

They need to put him at second base next year. Full time. 162 games. End of story. He's an above-average defender there.

Benny Lava wrote:It's not completely ridiculous to have concerns about Kingery going forward. If he isn't hitting, he's basically a guaranteed out. He needs to cut down the strikeouts (think he's 3rd in MLB in K%) and has to walk more so when he slumps he's not a total black hole on offense.

Having said that, if going forward this is what he is for his career, he still provides a lot of value for this team. Can play any position and can be a league-average hitter on a team-friendly contract. He had a better season than I thought he was going to have.

I think the disconnect is when you do the whole "if you remove the times he's good, he's actually not good" routine. He's obviously streaky, and some guys just are. Not every .250 hitter gets there by batting 1-for-4 every night of the season. He's still only 25, and maybe consistency comes with age. But he was more valuable by WAR than Cesar this year despite playing in 40 less games, and to me, 2B isn't a position where it's worth carrying a $9-10m insurance policy just in case Kingery regresses next year. I'm with RP, obviously I'd look to trade Cesar for whatever I can get, but to me, he seems like a pretty solid non-tender candidate. It's just a fairly deep position league-wide, and in the modern free agent market it's not hard to find useful guys who can play 2B, plus more versatility, on the market.

Kingery has really turned himself around this year and is, and will continue to be, a valuable player, despite his streakiness. However, a significant part of his value is linked to his versatility. If Kingery plays 2B all year it's going to be very difficult to find another Kingery who can play as many positions competently and contribute as much offensively.

CFP wrote:Cool, year 3 of having no idea what to do with Kingery. Sign me up.

They need to put him at second base next year. Full time. 162 games. End of story. He's an above-average defender there.

Ben Zobrist has had a pretty good career and he’s played over 200 games every position except 3b, 1b and cf and C

Matt Carpenter
Alex Bregman
Kris Bryant
Whit Merrifield
Max Muncy
Justin Turner

there are a bunch of good players who don't just stay at one position

mitt where he field

Grotewold wrote:mitt where he field

Bill McNeal wrote:

CFP wrote:Cool, year 3 of having no idea what to do with Kingery. Sign me up.

They need to put him at second base next year. Full time. 162 games. End of story. He's an above-average defender there.

Ben Zobrist has had a pretty good career and he’s played over 200 games every position except 3b, 1b and cf and C

So every position except half of them.

Also I think everyone is hoping that he has a better career than Zobrist (not that Zobrist hasn't had a pretty good career).

CFP wrote:They need to put him at second base next year. Full time. 162 games. End of story. He's an above-average defender there.

This is the right move for the team and Kingery. I'm not ready to assume he'll be an above average 2B next year (or beyond). He's started 8 games at 2B over the last 2 years. There were a number of mental gaffes during the few games I saw him in AAA. And of course it wouldn't be the first time a defensive reputation from the minors didn't translate to the majors.

Phred wrote:

Bill McNeal wrote:

CFP wrote:Cool, year 3 of having no idea what to do with Kingery. Sign me up.

They need to put him at second base next year. Full time. 162 games. End of story. He's an above-average defender there.

Ben Zobrist has had a pretty good career and he’s played over 200 games every position except 3b, 1b and cf and C

So every position except half of them.

Also I think everyone is hoping that he has a better career than Zobrist (not that Zobrist hasn't had a pretty good career).

Did you deliberately ignore the "200 games" part or just miss it? He's played those positions, too (other than catcher obviously) just not 200 games worth

philliesphhan wrote:

Phred wrote:

Bill McNeal wrote:

CFP wrote:Cool, year 3 of having no idea what to do with Kingery. Sign me up.

They need to put him at second base next year. Full time. 162 games. End of story. He's an above-average defender there.

Ben Zobrist has had a pretty good career and he’s played over 200 games every position except 3b, 1b and cf and C

So every position except half of them.

Also I think everyone is hoping that he has a better career than Zobrist (not that Zobrist hasn't had a pretty good career).

Did you deliberately ignore the "200 games" part or just miss it? He's played those positions, too (other than catcher obviously) just not 200 games worth

Ignored it.

Phred wrote:

Bill McNeal wrote:

CFP wrote:Cool, year 3 of having no idea what to do with Kingery. Sign me up.

They need to put him at second base next year. Full time. 162 games. End of story. He's an above-average defender there.

Ben Zobrist has had a pretty good career and he’s played over 200 games every position except 3b, 1b and cf and C

So every position except half of them.

Also I think everyone is hoping that he has a better career than Zobrist (not that Zobrist hasn't had a pretty good career).

I would take zobrist's career, if offered, with no hesitation.