Stripes wrote:

BigEd76 wrote:-- no commitment to Young but says he helped pitchers improve in 2018
-- not second-guessing himself over a player like Keuchel (can't mention him directly) since they thought the pitching staff would improve

aren't the second and third points contradictory?

Nah. They like the work Young did last year and thought things would get even better this year (nope)

JFLNYC wrote:-- no commitment to Young but says he helped pitchers improve in 2018

Were any of those pitchers on the Phillies?

?

Nola , Pivetta, Velazquez,Eflin, Adam Morgan (who?) were all better 2017 to 2018.

Though I was always dubious they'd continue improvement

With arb estimates, Phils are currently around $175M against the 2020 cap of $208M. That's assuming Neshek is paid his $750k buyout instead of his $7M option. Picking up Hughes' option would cost another $2.75M against the cap.

Potential non-tender casualties?
Eickhoff is included in those figures at a $1.5M arb estimate.
Franco is estimated at $7.5M in arb.
Hernandez is estimated at $11M, but I can't see them just letting him go.
Alvarez is estimated at $3M.

cesar seems like the prototypical non-tender.

ReadingPhilly wrote:cesar seems like the prototypical non-tender.

It would be stupid to non-tender Cesar. He's worth more in WAR than his salary will be next year. You can change his role, but either trade him or play him here.

LastTrain wrote:With arb estimates, Phils are currently around $175M against the 2020 cap of $208M. That's assuming Neshek is paid his $750k buyout instead of his $7M option. Picking up Hughes' option would cost another $2.75M against the cap.

Potential non-tender casualties?
Eickhoff is included in those figures at a $1.5M arb estimate.
Franco is estimated at $7.5M in arb.
Hernandez is estimated at $11M, but I can't see them just letting him go.
Alvarez is estimated at $3M.

I assume this includes Odubel's $7MM? They are going to have to figure this one out pretty soon after the season.

stevemc wrote:I assume this includes Odubel's $7MM? They are going to have to figure this one out pretty soon after the season.

Yes, he is included at his cap hit of $6.1M (cash salary is $7M as you state). I can't picture a way they avoid his cap hit for 2020, unless some team is willing to absorb a portion of it in a trade. I don't see a straight waiver claim being made by another team after a DFA.

these are the 2B free agents:

Howie Kendrick (36 years old, 1.7 WAR)
Brian Dozier (33, 1.4)
Brock Holt (32, 1.1)
Jason Kipnis (33, 1.0) -- $16.5 million club option for 2020 ($2.5 million buyout)
Jonathan Schoop (28, 0.8)
Wilmer Flores (28, 0.6) -- $6 million club option for 2020 ($500,000 buyout)
Brad Miller (30, 0.4)
Gordon Beckham (33, 0.2)
Ben Zobrist (39, 0.0)
Scooter Gennett (30, -0.2)
Starlin Castro (30, -0.2) -- $16 million club option for 2020 ($1 million buyout)
Yangervis Solarte (32, -0.3)
Josh Harrison (32, -0.6)
Chris Owings (28, -0.8)
Eduardo Nuñez (33, -1.0)


It's Cesar/Kingery or bust.

ReadingPhilly wrote:cesar seems like the prototypical non-tender.

Can't see it happening. At the least, a trade partner is out there for a minimal return.

I think a trade is the right answer. I defended him because of the foot injury and usage but I think it's likely we're seeing his decline.

At the same time, it's hard for me to ignore that outside of a few hot streaks Kingery has looked a lot like 2018 Kingery at the plate.

Uncle Milty wrote:

ReadingPhilly wrote:cesar seems like the prototypical non-tender.

At the same time, it's hard for me to ignore that outside of a few hot streaks Kingery has looked a lot like 2018 Kingery at the plate.

If you ignore Scott Kingery playing well, he sucks!

Which hot streak bothered you most? .406/.457/.719 in April, .295/.351/.600 in June, or .287/.346/.479 in August? If you take all of those away from him, he really sucks!

CFP wrote:

Uncle Milty wrote:

ReadingPhilly wrote:cesar seems like the prototypical non-tender.

At the same time, it's hard for me to ignore that outside of a few hot streaks Kingery has looked a lot like 2018 Kingery at the plate.

If you ignore Scott Kingery playing well, he sucks!

Which hot streak bothered you most? .406/.457/.719 in April, .295/.351/.600 in June, or .287/.346/.479 in August? If you take all of those away from him, he really sucks!

Everyone knows May and July are what REALLY matter. The rest of the summer is just show.

bleh wrote:these are the 2B free agents:

Howie Kendrick (36 years old, 1.7 WAR)
Brian Dozier (33, 1.4)
Brock Holt (32, 1.1)
Jason Kipnis (33, 1.0) -- $16.5 million club option for 2020 ($2.5 million buyout)
Jonathan Schoop (28, 0.8)
Wilmer Flores (28, 0.6) -- $6 million club option for 2020 ($500,000 buyout)
Brad Miller (30, 0.4)
Gordon Beckham (33, 0.2)
Ben Zobrist (39, 0.0)
Scooter Gennett (30, -0.2)
Starlin Castro (30, -0.2) -- $16 million club option for 2020 ($1 million buyout)
Yangervis Solarte (32, -0.3)
Josh Harrison (32, -0.6)
Chris Owings (28, -0.8)
Eduardo Nuñez (33, -1.0)


It's Cesar/Kingery or bust.

it's time to make kingery the everyday second baseman. bohm should be ready early in the year and they'll likely have a glut of outfielders one way or the other.

bleh wrote:these are the 2B free agents:

Howie Kendrick (36 years old, 1.7 WAR)
Brian Dozier (33, 1.4)
Brock Holt (32, 1.1)
Jason Kipnis (33, 1.0) -- $16.5 million club option for 2020 ($2.5 million buyout)
Jonathan Schoop (28, 0.8)
Wilmer Flores (28, 0.6) -- $6 million club option for 2020 ($500,000 buyout)
Brad Miller (30, 0.4)
Gordon Beckham (33, 0.2)
Ben Zobrist (39, 0.0)
Scooter Gennett (30, -0.2)
Starlin Castro (30, -0.2) -- $16 million club option for 2020 ($1 million buyout)
Yangervis Solarte (32, -0.3)
Josh Harrison (32, -0.6)
Chris Owings (28, -0.8)
Eduardo Nuñez (33, -1.0)


It's Cesar/Kingery or bust.

not a single spoonerism among them

reasons the phils' playoff odds are really low: 8 of our 12 remaining games are against good teams on the road, with 7 of those against teams with reasons to still be fighting; 5 of those are in washington creating extra long odds of gaining ground on that key opponent; brew crew play bad teams the rest of the way; phils phail against the phish.

reasons they might beat the odds: cubs have 7 games against a superior cards team that won't let up against them; bryce vs the nats nicely combines motive-means-opportunity for heroic exploits from him; brewers have been de-yeliched; the fish really stink.

alas... sigh... that's not enough...

CFP wrote:

Uncle Milty wrote:

ReadingPhilly wrote:cesar seems like the prototypical non-tender.

At the same time, it's hard for me to ignore that outside of a few hot streaks Kingery has looked a lot like 2018 Kingery at the plate.

If you ignore Scott Kingery playing well, he sucks!

Which hot streak bothered you most? .406/.457/.719 in April, .295/.351/.600 in June, or .287/.346/.479 in August? If you take all of those away from him, he really sucks!

2nd half - .226/.290/.416 and striking out in about 1/3 of his ABs

Some of you are fucking ridiculous. Like I root for the guy to fail based solely on thinking he wasn't ready last year and the contract wasn't warranted.

None of the hot streaks "bothered me". I watch and root for him (and every other Phillies) every fucking game. In those good months he's a contributor for a week and then a void for 20 games.

Uncle Milty wrote:

CFP wrote:

Uncle Milty wrote:

ReadingPhilly wrote:cesar seems like the prototypical non-tender.

At the same time, it's hard for me to ignore that outside of a few hot streaks Kingery has looked a lot like 2018 Kingery at the plate.

If you ignore Scott Kingery playing well, he sucks!

Which hot streak bothered you most? .406/.457/.719 in April, .295/.351/.600 in June, or .287/.346/.479 in August? If you take all of those away from him, he really sucks!

I watch and root for him (and every other Phillies) every fucking game. In those good months he's a contributor for a week and then a void for 20 games.

But this is just absolutely not true, and "watching the games" or a quick look at Baseball-Reference would tell you otherwise.

Grotewold wrote:
not a single spoonerism among them

Starlin Castro sounds like it SHOULD be a spoonerism.

Inky did a good comparison of Rendon or Cole. As much as I love Rendon's hard nosed play, and tangible results, it has to be Cole. Pitching is aneed for the team, and Rendon would block Bohm for more then the $200M contract he will get. Then you could have the pitching tandem of Co-la (marketing already). Actually I think I would pitch Cole and Nola like 1 & 3 to assure that no team could get skipped punishment due to scheduling (looking @ the Boston 2 game series).

Last year Jean Segura had a .755 OPS and a 111 OPS+

This year he's at .757 and 93. Makes you wonder what game to play exactly in Seattle.

thephan wrote:Inky did a good comparison of Rendon or Cole. As much as I love Rendon's hard nosed play, and tangible results, it has to be Cole. Pitching is aneed for the team, and Rendon would block Bohm for more then the $200M contract he will get. Then you could have the pitching tandem of Co-la (marketing already). Actually I think I would pitch Cole and Nola like 1 & 3 to assure that no team could get skipped punishment due to scheduling (looking @ the Boston 2 game series).

it doesn't work out a lot of times but cole is a california guy and moreno obviously needs to add a big piece. (not THAT big piece)