Phillies 2019 Discussion IV: Krew? **** You!

by **thephan** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 09:42:19

A question on everyone's mind is WTF to do with Vince Velasquez. As we all know, his contributions are wildly inconsistent, but when he is on he seems like a guy who could hold down a #2/3 slot, but as often he is maddeningly bad. Those swings make him both enticing, and undesirable to teams in trade scenarios. I assume he is a 2020 Phil, and hope they can debug whatever makes him sloppy.

by **azrider** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 09:51:05

given up on him of possibly being a 2 or 3 or even a shut down reliever or closer. more than willing and happy if he is a 5 though. i'll take the inconsistencies and also his bat, willingness to play the field or bounce to the pen. the only issue is you're going to have to start paying a premium for that, well above what it's probably worth. i personally would do that.

by **BigEd76** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 09:51:45

Still think he’s better suited as a reliever but was forced to return to the rotation due to injuries and Pivetta being garbage

by **MoBettle** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 09:55:50

We have 4 years of him in the rotation, never reach 150 innings and has a career 91 ERA+. He’s gonna be 28 next year. They can’t let a few hot starts trick them into just giving him a spot in the rotation again.

by **heyeaglefn** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:01:49

They aren't going to be able to turn over the starting rotation in one offseason, I think he will need to be a 4/5 for them next year.

by **Uncle Milty** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:13:00

thephan wrote:A question on everyone's mind is WTF to do with Vince Velasquez. As we all know, his contributions are wildly inconsistent, but when he is on he seems like a guy who could hold down a #2/3 slot, but as often he is maddeningly bad. Those swings make him both enticing, and undesirable to teams in trade scenarios. I assume he is a 2020 Phil, and hope they can debug whatever makes him sloppy.

You can't count on him for anything at this point. If there's coaching changes in the off-season one more opportunity is warranted.

After giving up on him as a 2/3 I thought he might become a great 5. He doesn't provide the occasional Ace Start™ required by me to secure a role at the back end of the rotation. Ace Starts™ are why I loved Cory Lidle at the end of our rotation.

VV has not excelled out of the 'pen either. Since he seems to start slow in his appearances I don't think he ever will.

by **MoBettle** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:15:55

heyeaglefn wrote:They aren't going to be able to turn over the starting rotation in one offseason, I think he will need to be a 4/5 for them next year.

Well you have Nola and Arrieta (for a few months at least.) You can sign two starters and let the remainder battle it out in camp for the 5th spot with Howard looming.

by **heyeaglefn** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:19:31

MoBettle wrote:
heyeaglefn wrote:They aren't going to be able to turn over the starting rotation in one offseason, I think he will need to be a 4/5 for them next year.

Well you have Nola and Arrieta (for a few months at least.) You can sign two starters and let the remainder battle it out in camp for the 5th spot with Howard looming.

I am not counting on Arrieta at all next year, hopefully he can come in and be a solid #3 but I don't know if he has that in him anymore.

by **MoBettle** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:26:32

heyeaglefn wrote:
MoBettle wrote:
heyeaglefn wrote:They aren't going to be able to turn over the starting rotation in one offseason, I think he will need to be a 4/5 for them next year.

Well you have Nola and Arrieta (for a few months at least.) You can sign two starters and let the remainder battle it out in camp for the 5th spot with Howard looming.

I am not counting on Arrieta at all next year, hopefully he can come in and be a solid #3 but I don't know if he has that in him anymore.

Fair but realistically with all the money they owe him I imagine they will at least go into the year with him in the rotation.

by **heyeaglefn** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:28:46

MoBettle wrote:
heyeaglefn wrote:
MoBettle wrote:
heyeaglefn wrote:They aren't going to be able to turn over the starting rotation in one offseason, I think he will need to be a 4/5 for them next year.

Well you have Nola and Arrieta (for a few months at least.) You can sign two starters and let the remainder battle it out in camp for the 5th spot with Howard looming.

I am not counting on Arrieta at all next year, hopefully he can come in and be a solid #3 but I don't know if he has that in him anymore.

Fair but realistically with all the money they owe him I imagine they will at least go into the year with him in the rotation.

Oh yeah he will definitely be in the rotation, I just am saying in an ideal world you would somehow get two guys that would be ahead of him in the rotation, but I don't know if that is even possible in one offseason.

by **Phred** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:12:59

Some guys take a while to figure it out.

I think that both VV and Pivetta have too much potential for the Phils to give up on although they should both have a lot less of a role going into next year than they did this year. Maybe they start in the AAA rotation depending on the spring training.

by **WhiteyFan** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:22:16

heyeaglefn wrote:
MoBettle wrote:
heyeaglefn wrote:
MoBettle wrote:
heyeaglefn wrote:They aren't going to be able to turn over the starting rotation in one offseason, I think he will need to be a 4/5 for them next year.

Well you have Nola and Arrieta (for a few months at least.) You can sign two starters and let the remainder battle it out in camp for the 5th spot with Howard looming.

I am not counting on Arrieta at all next year, hopefully he can come in and be a solid #3 but I don't know if he has that in him anymore.

Fair but realistically with all the money they owe him I imagine they will at least go into the year with him in the rotation.

Oh yeah he will definitely be in the rotation, I just am saying in an ideal world you would somehow get two guys that would be ahead of him in the rotation, but I don't know if that is even possible in one offseason.

This pretty much has to happen if the Phils expect to contend. Sign Cole for sure and then either trade or sign for another SP.
1. Cole
2. Nola
3. FA/Trade acquisition
4. Arrieta
5. Eflin

by **SixerLed3** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:33:34

Bob Nightengale chimes in on potential coaching vacancies across the league:

The only real question is whether Kapler takes the fall or his coaching staff? Phillies GM Matt Klentak wants to bring Kapler back, and is open to shuffling the staff.

Then again, this may not necessarily be his call.

Phillies owner John Middleton is the one who ordered Klentak to fire hitting coach John Mallee and bring back Charlie Manuel, and it’s quite possible he calls the shot this time, too. And, if Kapler is out, is he Bochy’s replacement in San Francisco, considering his relationship with Giants president Farhan Zaidi from their Los Angeles Dodgers’ days together?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/m ... 349935001/

by **jamiethekiller** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:38:18

He's a not as good Padilla

by **CFP** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:43:26

Nightengale is an absolute clown and probably shouldn't even be quoted for anything

by **heyeaglefn** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:44:06

WhiteyFan wrote:
heyeaglefn wrote:
MoBettle wrote:
heyeaglefn wrote:
MoBettle wrote:
heyeaglefn wrote:They aren't going to be able to turn over the starting rotation in one offseason, I think he will need to be a 4/5 for them next year.

Well you have Nola and Arrieta (for a few months at least.) You can sign two starters and let the remainder battle it out in camp for the 5th spot with Howard looming.

I am not counting on Arrieta at all next year, hopefully he can come in and be a solid #3 but I don't know if he has that in him anymore.

Fair but realistically with all the money they owe him I imagine they will at least go into the year with him in the rotation.

Oh yeah he will definitely be in the rotation, I just am saying in an ideal world you would somehow get two guys that would be ahead of him in the rotation, but I don't know if that is even possible in one offseason.

This pretty much has to happen if the Phils expect to contend. Sign Cole for sure and then either trade or sign for another SP.
1. Cole
2. Nola
3. FA/Trade acquisition
4. Arrieta
5. Eflin

Is the money there for Cole? I would guess they don't want to get close to luxury tax line next year but I haven't been following their salary situation.

by **SixerLed3** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:46:53

CFP wrote:Nightengale is an absolute clown and probably shouldn't even be quoted for anything

That's fair but it's notable that he would write that considering the glowing praise he wrote on Kapler six weeks ago.

by **Uncle Milty** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:51:12

heyeaglefn wrote:
WhiteyFan wrote:
heyeaglefn wrote:
MoBettle wrote:
heyeaglefn wrote:
MoBettle wrote:
heyeaglefn wrote:They aren't going to be able to turn over the starting rotation in one offseason, I think he will need to be a 4/5 for them next year.

Well you have Nola and Arrieta (for a few months at least.) You can sign two starters and let the remainder battle it out in camp for the 5th spot with Howard looming.

I am not counting on Arrieta at all next year, hopefully he can come in and be a solid #3 but I don't know if he has that in him anymore.

Fair but realistically with all the money they owe him I imagine they will at least go into the year with him in the rotation.

Oh yeah he will definitely be in the rotation, I just am saying in an ideal world you would somehow get two guys that would be ahead of him in the rotation, but I don't know if that is even possible in one offseason.

This pretty much has to happen if the Phils expect to contend. Sign Cole for sure and then either trade or sign for another SP.
1. Cole
2. Nola
3. FA/Trade acquisition
4. Arrieta
5. Eflin

Is the money there for Cole? I would guess they don't want to get close to luxury tax line next year but I haven't been following their salary situation.

IIRC they have over $50M, not counting arbitration and pre-arbitration players. Can probably get close to Gerrit and extending JT.

by **Uncle Milty** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:52:28

SixerLed3 wrote:Bob Nightengale chimes in on potential coaching vacancies across the league:

The only real question is whether Kapler takes the fall or his coaching staff? Phillies GM Matt Klentak wants to bring Kapler back, and is open to shuffling the staff.

Then again, this may not necessarily be his call.

Phillies owner John Middleton is the one who ordered Klentak to fire hitting coach John Mallee and bring back Charlie Manuel, and it’s quite possible he calls the shot this time, too. And, if Kapler is out, is he Bochy’s replacement in San Francisco, considering his relationship with Giants president Farhan Zaidi from their Los Angeles Dodgers’ days together?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/m ... 349935001/

Klentak supporting Kapler should tell Meddleton what he really needs to do.

by **thephan** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:59:10

I think that Whitey's prop is in dream land. It would be awesome, but will the team commit? They tried the Moar Batz approach this year and choked on it. In fairness it seemed like you could have trusted the rotation at least a little, and all there is are starts between Nola Day. I am not sure the source, but a writer made that case that the highest points in Phils history at CBP were pitching driven with complementary bats, but not predicated on mashers.

Archived

Phillies 2019 Discussion IV: Krew? **** You!

Re: Phillies 2019 Discussion IV: Krew? **** You!

Re: Phillies 2019 Discussion IV: Krew? **** You!

Re: Phillies 2019 Discussion IV: Krew? **** You!

Re: Phillies 2019 Discussion IV: Krew? **** You!

Re: Phillies 2019 Discussion IV: Krew? **** You!

Re: Phillies 2019 Discussion IV: Krew? **** You!

Re: Phillies 2019 Discussion IV: Krew? **** You!

Re: Phillies 2019 Discussion IV: Krew? **** You!

Re: Phillies 2019 Discussion IV: Krew? **** You!

Re: Phillies 2019 Discussion IV: Krew? **** You!

Re: Phillies 2019 Discussion IV: Krew? **** You!

Re: Phillies 2019 Discussion IV: Krew? **** You!

Re: Phillies 2019 Discussion IV: Krew? **** You!

Re: Phillies 2019 Discussion IV: Krew? **** You!

Re: Phillies 2019 Discussion IV: Krew? **** You!

Re: Phillies 2019 Discussion IV: Krew? **** You!

Re: Phillies 2019 Discussion IV: Krew? **** You!

Re: Phillies 2019 Discussion IV: Krew? **** You!

Re: Phillies 2019 Discussion IV: Krew? **** You!

Re: Phillies 2019 Discussion IV: Krew? **** You!