Uncle Milty wrote:

Titlehungry wrote:Firing Kapler now makes no sense... unless the new manager is bringing along 5 new solid bullpen arms, three or four major league starting pitchers, Andrew McCutchen healed, Alec Bohm ready, a permanent position for Scott Kingery, a good hitting coach, and more time to make up the games they are back in the race... fire him after the last game

Assuming Wathan becomes the interim it gives you 40+ games to evaluate him at this level.

Correct. And he was the runner up for the job last year.

Uncle Milty wrote:

Titlehungry wrote:Firing Kapler now makes no sense... unless the new manager is bringing along 5 new solid bullpen arms, three or four major league starting pitchers, Andrew McCutchen healed, Alec Bohm ready, a permanent position for Scott Kingery, a good hitting coach, and more time to make up the games they are back in the race... fire him after the last game

Assuming Wathan becomes the interim it gives you 40+ games to evaluate him at this level.

There's not exactly a plethora of in-house replacements. Says a lot about our current staff(which may be a bigger problem)

if there is a problem, i don't see how you can think it is managerial and not organizational.

ReadingPhilly wrote:if there is a problem, i don't see how you can think it is managerial and not organizational.

Yeah, I don’t really care about whether they keep Kapler around, but the only real downside to firing him is the potential of them using it as a way to avoid addressing larger issues.

ReadingPhilly wrote:if there is a problem, i don't see how you can think it is managerial and not organizational.

I doubt many believe it's just managerial but it's the easiest target and the easiest change.

To me the problems reach at least to Klentak, likely includes MacFail and probably even includes Meddleton (if some suppositions are accurate).

I think firing Kapler is actually a bad sign. It means either Klentak is panicking because he thinks his job is on the line so he is making a panic move, or he actually thinks this team is better than the talent they currently have available, which means he is underestimating how bad the guys are that they are running out there in the bullpen and the starting staff.

If Klentak thinks a broken Arrieta and a bullpen that has lost so many guys should be performing better then we are in trouble.

I don't know whether Klentak or MacPhail are doing their job well enough... I do know they made a bad call putting their faith fully in the progress of the starting pitchers they started the season with outside Nola. I do know that I have seen nothing from Kapler that makes me think he is has positive worth as a manager... maybe he gets better like Francona though that's an outlier... they are on pace for what 82 wins... how much does that jump if you had a healthy Robertson, Dominguez, Arano, Neshek, Hunter, Morgan in the pen and a healthy McCutchen and legal issue free Herrera in the outfield and if even one of Pivetta, VV, Eflin, Eickhoff evolved into a legit 2-3 starter with another one being a reliable 4-5... Does that get you to 90 wins? Is it that far off expectations then... I think that gives you hope this can be fixed for next season unless they keep Kapler, Klentak, and MacPhail and they are the root of the problem.

heyeaglefn wrote:I think firing Kapler is actually a bad sign. It means either Klentak is panicking because he thinks his job is on the line so he is making a panic move,

I don't think Klentak fires Kapler without at least consulting MacPhail

Kapler or no Kapler my hope for next year is what we thought we had this year. A consistent daily lineup with guys set at each position. Pray to the healthy baseball player gods this offseason.

ReadingPhilly wrote:if there is a problem, i don't see how you can think it is managerial and not organizational.

not sure it was klentaks call to start sean rodriguez then ph for him after two innings.

CalvinBall wrote:

ReadingPhilly wrote:if there is a problem, i don't see how you can think it is managerial and not organizational.

not sure it was klentaks call to start sean rodriguez then ph for him after two innings.

I think it was in Steaks' article today that in bringing in Pivetta to face Pillar, rather than have Alvarez vs Crawford, they got the matchup they wanted. Pillar is red-hot right now, and Crawford is struggling, yet THAT is the matchup they wanted? It's not as if Pivetta is some lock-down reliever all of a sudden. He's still feeling his way in his new role.

I swear, you can have all the data in the world available to you, but if you don't understand how to properly use it...

Stripes wrote:

CalvinBall wrote:

ReadingPhilly wrote:if there is a problem, i don't see how you can think it is managerial and not organizational.

not sure it was klentaks call to start sean rodriguez then ph for him after two innings.

I think it was in Steaks' article today that in bringing in Pivetta to face Pillar, rather than have Alvarez vs Crawford, they got the matchup they wanted. Pillar is red-hot right now, and Crawford is struggling, yet THAT is the matchup they wanted? It's not as if Pivetta is some lock-down reliever all of a sudden. He's still feeling his way in his new role.

I swear, you can have all the data in the world available to you, but if you don't understand how to properly use it...

AROD hammered Kapler on that as he literally said before the grooved pitch there was no reason to give Pillar anything.

Also, and possibly more disturbing, Pivetta put the ball exactly where Realmuto wanted it on 3-1.

Love how the blame seamlessly gets shifted to Kapler for Pivetta not throwing the right pitch. Maybe JT's pitch selection is a problem? That would make more sense than a lot of other things people like to blame.

And this is in a game where the starter with a balky elbow could only go 3 innings and gives up 5 runs. But no, that's not the problem. Nor is it the injury depleted bullpen. No, it's the ORDER the scrap heap relievers were used that is the problem. Kapler is behind everything!

bleh wrote:Love how the blame seamlessly gets shifted to Kapler for Pivetta not throwing the right pitch. Maybe JT's pitch selection is a problem? That would make more sense than a lot of other things people like to blame.

And this is in a game where the starter with a balky elbow could only go 3 innings and gives up 5 runs. But no, that's not the problem. Nor is it the injury depleted bullpen. No, it's the ORDER the scrap heap relievers were used that is the problem. Kapler is behind everything!

Why even pitch to Pillar in that spot?

That's 100% on Kapler.

AROD hit the nail on the head............"careless managing, careless pitching."

bleh wrote:Love how the blame seamlessly gets shifted to Kapler for Pivetta not throwing the right pitch. Maybe JT's pitch selection is a problem? That would make more sense than a lot of other things people like to blame.

And this is in a game where the starter with a balky elbow could only go 3 innings and gives up 5 runs. But no, that's not the problem. Nor is it the injury depleted bullpen. No, it's the ORDER the scrap heap relievers were used that is the problem. Kapler is behind everything!

we've moved onto crying about pitching to a sub .700 ops guy.

@CSeidmanNBCS
Phillies ranks since the All-Star break:

26th in runs scored
27th in batting average
26th in slugging percentage
25th in OPS
26th in extra-base hits

Again maybe Kapler caused Pivetta to throw the wrong pitch but if you give a manager more than one good starter and a bullpen full of real major league pitchers it’s crazy how many fewer bad decisions a manager makes.

If Arrieta goes 7 strong like he’s being paid to do and Seranthony pitches the 8th it’s probably a different game.

I don’t think Gabe deserves commendation for his performance but it’s notable that he basically had to do a high wire act for 4 hours every night.

momadance wrote:@CSeidmanNBCS
Phillies ranks since the All-Star break:

26th in runs scored
27th in batting average
26th in slugging percentage
25th in OPS
26th in extra-base hits

we were supposed to have the best lineup in the majors lollllllllllll

It's always hard to isolate the blame. But they've been floundering for months, and if Macphail and Klentak decide Gabe's not the one to lead them in the future, I could see them just firing him now (or soon) because that's what's in the best interests of the org, etc.

Brantt wrote:

bleh wrote:Love how the blame seamlessly gets shifted to Kapler for Pivetta not throwing the right pitch. Maybe JT's pitch selection is a problem? That would make more sense than a lot of other things people like to blame.

And this is in a game where the starter with a balky elbow could only go 3 innings and gives up 5 runs. But no, that's not the problem. Nor is it the injury depleted bullpen. No, it's the ORDER the scrap heap relievers were used that is the problem. Kapler is behind everything!

Why even pitch to Pillar in that spot?

That's 100% on Kapler.

So you don't turn the lineup over. They still had to get 3 outs in the 9th inning. They'd be facing the 7-8-9 spots in the 9th if they can get Kevin Pillar out. And Kevin Pillar sucks.

AROD hit the nail on the head............"careless managing, careless pitching."

pretty sure he didn't say that