philliesphhan wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/14/world/paris-attacks/

One of the suicide bombers in Friday's attacks has been identified as Ismael Omar Mostefai, according to a French member of Parliament. Mostefai lived in Chartres at least until 2012, said Jean-Pierre Gorges, who is mayor of the French town as well as a member of Parliament, via Facebook.

That's fucking crazy. Chartres is the town I lived in. It's a quiet little countryside city.

Report: Manhunt on across Europe for an alleged 8th participant.

The Dude wrote:why are so many people postng the kenya story now? these are the same people that say we ignore the rest of the world.

Yeah, I've seen it three times in the past day, all from the lefty/conscientious liberal sorts. I'd guess a prominent Twitterer or site posted it as if it was new with a 'how come we're so upset about Paris while ignoring a similar number killed in Africa by Islamic terrorists' type message.

why not talk about/post about what happened in Kenya?

Youseff wrote:why not talk about/post about what happened in Kenya?

Because it happened 7 months ago

It's another thing that Americans cared much less about than this Paris attack, and if people want to make that argument, that's fine. But there seem to be better ways of doing that than posting about a months old terrorist attack like it just happened.

Photo and name of an individual potentially involved in the attack has been circulated by Interpool. Individual considered "very dangerous."

jerseyhoya wrote:

Youseff wrote:why not talk about/post about what happened in Kenya?

Because it happened 7 months ago

It's another thing that Americans cared much less about than this Paris attack, and if people want to make that argument, that's fine. But there seem to be better ways of doing that than posting about a months old terrorist attack like it just happened.

I'm fine with it, as long as it's not being posted to be holier than thou. in light of what occurred in Paris, one of the things you'd hope would happen would be dialogue, conversations, a deeper understanding of what lead to this. people have more of an appetite now than they would in absence of the Paris attacks.

Youseff wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:

Youseff wrote:why not talk about/post about what happened in Kenya?

Because it happened 7 months ago

It's another thing that Americans cared much less about than this Paris attack, and if people want to make that argument, that's fine. But there seem to be better ways of doing that than posting about a months old terrorist attack like it just happened.

I'm fine with it, as long as it's not being posted to be holier than thou. in light of what occurred in Paris, one of the things you'd hope would happen would be dialogue, conversations, a deeper understanding of what lead to this. people have more of an appetite now than they would in absence of the Paris attacks.

lol that's exactly why it's being posted

not sure I agree.

considering i'm the one that did it, i can say that's not why it was posted. it's to show the out of proportion response when something happens in 'the West' when others have been facing it on a daily basis. Precisely because it's 'normal' is why it's so wrong there that people can't lead their lives. terrorism has been happening everywhere since the dawn of man. i simply hope we don't respond the way man has responded in the past. this has happened, this will happen again. it next won't be in France, it may be elsewhere. It may be done by a different group with different ends or by a different person. we had a terroristic act in South Carolina, for example. we'll continue to have them. other countries will to, even in the West.

pacino wrote:considering i'm the one that did it, i can say that's not why it was posted. it's to show the out of proportion response when something happens in 'the West' when others have been facing it on a daily basis. Precisely because it's 'normal' is why it's so wrong there that people can't lead their lives. terrorism has been happening everywhere since the dawn of man. i simply hope we don't respond the way man has responded in the past. this has happened, this will happen again. it next won't be in France, it may be elsewhere. It may be done by a different group with different ends or by a different person. we had a terroristic act in South Carolina, for example. we'll continue to have them. other countries will to, even in the West.

i dont think anyone here is talking about your post, as we were talking about annoying people on facebook. One posted "Jesus" with the link, then deleted it after a friend pointed out it happened in April. Another said something liek "what is going on?!?!" then deleted. Another said something about what is the world coming to. None were making the point you were making, but even in yours in this thread i don't see how we were supposed to get all that from that post

understood.

i'm just saddened not only for the people that were murdered but that this may be used to advance a political agenda that involves demonizing the very people that are trying to leave this shit that's going on in their homelands. poland's already trying to use this as a reason to back out of the agreement to disperse refugees more evenly.

pacino wrote:understood.

i'm just saddened not only for the people that were murdered but that this may be used to advance a political agenda that involves demonizing the very people that are trying to leave this shit that's going on in their homelands. poland's already trying to use this as a reason to back out of the agreement to disperse refugees more evenly.

And it doesn't even make sense mathematically. So far, one guy at least lived in France until 2012 and another was born in Belgium. Even if the six remaining were ALL refugees, that's 6 out of how many million?

COLLATERAL DAMAGE

IT'S OK IF IT ISN'T YOU

pacino wrote:understood.

i'm just saddened not only for the people that were murdered but that this may be used to advance a political agenda that involves demonizing the very people that are trying to leave this shit that's going on in their homelands. poland's already trying to use this as a reason to back out of the agreement to disperse refugees more evenly.

It's even more sad when you realize pretty much all of them are leaving to escape the nut jobs who orchestrate these attacks or other oppressive regimes. I find it hard to fault them, being a descendant of people who fled Eastern Europe pre World War 2...

philliesphhan wrote:

pacino wrote:understood.

i'm just saddened not only for the people that were murdered but that this may be used to advance a political agenda that involves demonizing the very people that are trying to leave this shit that's going on in their homelands. poland's already trying to use this as a reason to back out of the agreement to disperse refugees more evenly.

And it doesn't even make sense mathematically. So far, one guy at least lived in France until 2012 and another was born in Belgium. Even if the six remaining were ALL refugees, that's 6 out of how many million?

They don't have to be refugees for EU countries accepting refugees to have played a role in the attack being successful. We'll have to see how all the details to shake out, but if some/all of them were training in Syria, and they were able to enter/reenter the EU from Syria under the cover of being refugees that could've been key in helping them evade state security forces/effective surveillance. Any Belgian or Frenchman who is returning from holidays with ISIS needs to have tabs kept on them, and depending on their method of reentry in Europe the refugee situation may have made that impossible.

As for the not making sense mathematically, that's an opinion based on personal priorities. There's an undeniable need to do something to help such a mass scale tragedy, but I'm not sure it has to be large numbers of asylum for refugees. As it is, the EU is only taking a small fraction of the refugees being handled by Jordan, Lebanon, etc. I am not sure how it would work logistically, but if the West (and Saudi, Emirates, Kuwait) was willing to invest in decent refugee setups outside of Western countries perhaps the physical relocation of so many people into the EU wouldn't be necessary. It's not like the current set up taking them into the EU is firing on all cylinders. For your narrower math point, if it's just 6-8 people who are ISIS trained and perpetrate a one off major attack, then I guess it's easy enough to argue this would be within the acceptable risk of taking in so many needy people. But what kind of confidence should Germans, French, Belgians, etc. have that this isn't going to happen again? How closely can the people coming in be screened? My understanding is it's very difficult to closely examine claimed identity because documentation from Syria isn't exactly 21st century ID chip tech. The leader of a country has a first priority to keeping his or her citizens safe, and depending on what the details end up being from this attack, it might be irresponsible not to reexamine how they're going about accepting refugees.

In addition to the short term terrorism threat, these European countries have mostly had terrible times in integrating their Muslim immigrant communities. This fly by the seat of your pants refugee acceptance seems likely to exacerbate that issue, which hurts the countries accepting the refugees financially and with the threat of incubating future terrorist threats.

This was a huge wake up call for mainstream politicians across the EU, and they're going to have to figure out some way of handling this in a way that makes their citizens feel more secure or else we'll see the FN surging, the UK bailing out of the EU, etc.

i don't think you solve anything by walling europe off from the rest of the world. reevaluating accepting refugees in based off a terrorist attack is exactly what they want you to do. it may be a wakeup for mainstream politicians in the EU, but what about central European countries being led by reactionaries that already are against all refugees? should germany/france/uk follow THEIR lead now?

and what of the huge population of people who have lived in these nations for years? would you further assert an otherness onto them by not allowing more of 'them'? It's a self-perpetuating problem that's going on. when's the last time France declared a state of emergency? 2006, when there was unrest after 2 teens in a poor neighborhood were shot by police. if we think they've been bad at integration before, how will creating a new reason to hate Europe and Europeans make it easier going forward?

Europe should get with Trump regarding building beautiful fences.

smitty wrote:Europe should get with Trump regarding building beautiful fences.

Mexico better be paying for them

Trump will force the IS to pay for the walls