SK790 wrote:

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:

SK790 wrote:I'd also like to give pac a pat on the back. He legitimately has posted about almost every large attack by the IS when they happened in the politics thread. Some people (very few) actually care about this problem.

It's hard to get too worked up about people on Facebook getting selectively upset about this issue. People generally care more about places that are familiar to them. It's the same reason that the Virginia Tech shooting will always mean more to me than any other college shooting (not that I ignore them either).

but it's easy to get upset at people who point out this selective nature of mourning?(i know you're not making this argument, but some people have been pretty upset at those who have had the gall to point out that these attacks are pretty common in the Middle East)

i mean, just because human nature is to act a certain way, doesn't make it correct and i feel like most grown adults should be able to recognize that and maybe temper their defensive outrage after it's pointed out to them that they're inherently self-centered people(like all of us!). some liberals take it too far and their outrage is overblown others are phonies who only care when a certain topic is in the news, but those people are far less offensive to me than those who will use these attacks to further a anti-Muslim agenda or those that will act like it's the worst if they have to see a few Facebook posts about previous attacks that went largely unnoticed by the general population. the former are just racists, the later probably need to get thicker skin and grow up a little bit.

NOTE: write longer sentences next time, sk. hope you guys can understand this.

Well, I think it's understandable that (many) people feel attacked when someone criticizes them, period. Most Facebook/social media dialogue isn't particularly constructive--mostly due to a combination of the absence of tone and the immaturity/attention span of the users--so it ends up devolving into a holier-than-thou fight.

I mean, my FB feed this morning (that doesn't involve people's kids or the NFL) is either people posting/arguing about terrorist attacks or people posting "OMG OBAMA SUCKS AND IS LETTING ISISISIS RUN THE MIDDLE EAST" memes. That pretty much always happens when something high-profile happens, then people will stop paying attention.

Man, that's cynical for a Monday morning.

Wow, Aaron Rodgers thoughtfully called out some dude who yelled "Muslims suck" during the moment of silence. Good for him. Can we trade for him??

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/11/15 ... uck-video/

Soren wrote:it was IRT a Jon Oliver video about how hopeless a cultural war against the French is, but yea it's true either way.

I love it, FWIW...

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:

SK790 wrote:

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:

SK790 wrote:I'd also like to give pac a pat on the back. He legitimately has posted about almost every large attack by the IS when they happened in the politics thread. Some people (very few) actually care about this problem.

It's hard to get too worked up about people on Facebook getting selectively upset about this issue. People generally care more about places that are familiar to them. It's the same reason that the Virginia Tech shooting will always mean more to me than any other college shooting (not that I ignore them either).

but it's easy to get upset at people who point out this selective nature of mourning?(i know you're not making this argument, but some people have been pretty upset at those who have had the gall to point out that these attacks are pretty common in the Middle East)

i mean, just because human nature is to act a certain way, doesn't make it correct and i feel like most grown adults should be able to recognize that and maybe temper their defensive outrage after it's pointed out to them that they're inherently self-centered people(like all of us!). some liberals take it too far and their outrage is overblown others are phonies who only care when a certain topic is in the news, but those people are far less offensive to me than those who will use these attacks to further a anti-Muslim agenda or those that will act like it's the worst if they have to see a few Facebook posts about previous attacks that went largely unnoticed by the general population. the former are just racists, the later probably need to get thicker skin and grow up a little bit.

NOTE: write longer sentences next time, sk. hope you guys can understand this.

Well, I think it's understandable that (many) people feel attacked when someone criticizes them, period. Most Facebook/social media dialogue isn't particularly constructive--mostly due to a combination of the absence of tone and the immaturity/attention span of the users--so it ends up devolving into a holier-than-thou fight.

I mean, my FB feed this morning (that doesn't involve people's kids or the NFL) is either people posting/arguing about terrorist attacks or people posting "OMG OBAMA SUCKS AND IS LETTING ISISISIS RUN THE MIDDLE EAST" memes. That pretty much always happens when something high-profile happens, then people will stop paying attention.

Man, that's cynical for a Monday morning.

I'm in complete agreement. I find one side of the poorly made argument less gross than the other is my point, I guess.

who cares. they both suck, let's move on

i think you were aiming for the eagles threat?

So, this is a complex situation to say the least.

ISIL is a sympton of a larger disease, this disease is the Salafist/Wahabbist form of Sunni Islam that just happens to be the state religion of Saudi Arabia. The Saudi's have been funding and exporting terrorism as a strategic weapon since the late 70s. Good strategy for them as it rids them of problems and helps weaken their enemies.

You can invade ISIL territory, but it's going to be from Nigeria through the Maghreb into the Sinai down into Somalia, up through the Arabian Peninsula and then into the Levant. That's where all the ISIL affiliated terrorist groups are, and hitting them in one place isn't going to be very effective.

Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States are the foundation of the problem. Ignoring them as the problem means you won't have an end to radical Sunni-based terrorism. It'll shift and morph over time, but the religious ideology and funding are coming from the Arabian Peninsula. That's the major problem. Minor problems are giving a lot of these youth an alternative narrative that sounds better than the Salafist noise they are attracted to, getting them educated, and giving them an effective identity that makes them less likely to join ISIL.

And if you don't offer something better than that, you're pissing in the wind. You could carpet bomb Syria into dust and the foundations of the problem will remain.

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:

SK790 wrote:Ted Cruz is a moron: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... ?tid=sm_tw

Considering the FBI just arrested a group of white skinheads here in the Richmond area who were planning one or more large bombings... yeah, I'd say he's a moron.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/10/us/white-supremacist-bomb-plot-virginia-fbi/

Ken Knight, 54, a heating and cooling technician from Florence, S.C., said he agrees with Bush and Cruz that only Christian refugees should be let into the country.

"I wouldn't bring the Muslims. They cut your head off. You can't trust them. I'm sure there are good ones, but they're like the mob. Once you get in, you can't trust them," he said after a church service Cruz attended in Florence

need to kick out the Italians

what is a realistic alternative option to provide the kids?

is it a matter of building schools? community sports groups? youth focused non profits like scouting or something?

CalvinBall wrote:what is a realistic alternative option to provide the kids?

is it a matter of building schools? community sports groups? youth focused non profits like scouting or something?

I won't speak for LG, but the problem is, imo, the countries in the middle east suck. You can either be repressed by an asshole dictator or you can join ISIS. The other option is leaving, which is proving to be increasingly difficult.

There's no solution. Nothing that the Western world will agree to anyway. A good start, imo, would be to get the EU and NATO to impose sanctions in Wahhabi led states and cut diplomatic ties until they stop funding these groups. Sanctions work, it brought Iran to their knees after years of them threatening to develop nukes...

CalvinBall wrote:what is a realistic alternative option to provide the kids?

is it a matter of building schools? community sports groups? youth focused non profits like scouting or something?

Give what American teens crave--rock music, cheap beer, and porn.

airdrop crates and crates of wii, playstion, xbox

Bucky wrote:airdrop crates and crates of wii, playstion, xbox

And a reliable electrical grid.

also an irrigation system

think it starts with governments not being corrupt. then they can arrest and prosecute these terrorist thugs that prey on the poor. no idea how you get non corrupt leaders though.

like all these things are great, but the terrorists will just steal the xboxes or the irrigation for themselves through violence.

here in the US when a girl is sexually assaulted walking to the library on her college campus, no one suggest that we move the library closer to her dorm. we, in theory, have a justice system in place that prosecutes the assailant. but in developing countries solutions are often lets move this well closer to the village or whatever. the violence will still exist and the poor will still be target no matter how far they have to walk.

SK790 wrote:

CalvinBall wrote:what is a realistic alternative option to provide the kids?

is it a matter of building schools? community sports groups? youth focused non profits like scouting or something?

I won't speak for LG, but the problem is, imo, the countries in the middle east suck. You can either be repressed by an asshat dictator or you can join ISIS. The other option is leaving, which is proving to be increasingly difficult.

This is the question I have. Its probably unanswerable. I really don't mean for this to sound inflammatory. But in a world with purportedly 1.2 billion peaceful non-radicalized Muslims does it seem that with respect to each Middle Eastern Country that the only two (2) options is either an oppressive dictatorship regime or a radical fundamentalist regime?

TenuredVulture wrote:

CalvinBall wrote:what is a realistic alternative option to provide the kids?

is it a matter of building schools? community sports groups? youth focused non profits like scouting or something?

Give what American teens crave--rock music, cheap beer, and porn.

Teens don't crave rock music

It's very important to bring flowers to our dead, it's very important to see, several times, the book by Hemingway "A Moveable Feast." We are a very ancient civilization and we will hold our values highest. And we will fraternize with the 5 million Muslims practicing their faith freely and peacefully and we will fight against the ten thousand barbarians who kill, supposedly in the name of Allah

She's awesome.

Squire wrote:

SK790 wrote:

CalvinBall wrote:what is a realistic alternative option to provide the kids?

is it a matter of building schools? community sports groups? youth focused non profits like scouting or something?

I won't speak for LG, but the problem is, imo, the countries in the middle east suck. You can either be repressed by an asshat dictator or you can join ISIS. The other option is leaving, which is proving to be increasingly difficult.

This is the question I have. Its probably unanswerable. I really don't mean for this to sound inflammatory. But in a world with purportedly 1.2 billion peaceful non-radicalized Muslims does it seem that with respect to each Middle Eastern Country that the only two (2) options is either an oppressive dictatorship regime or a radical fundamentalist regime?

na, this is a 100% fair question and one i don't have an answer to. maybe someone with more knowledge about the middle east could answer you, but i honestly have no idea why. i'm sure a lot of it has to do with just power corrupting the oligarchs, but i don't have a definite answer to that one.

even if it's true that most of these Islamic people are radicalized, we have a much better chance of de-radicalizing them by welcoming them into western society than we do by demonizing them and turning them away when they're trying to escape the radicals.

The Middle Eastern Monarachies are a lost cause. They control everything in the region - money, jobs, religion, culture, etc...

They provide relative order within their borders and that's it. If you are born into these countries and are not part of the royal families, life is automatically degraded a few levels.

In addition, there has been a demographic youth bulge in these countries that makes it even worse. There's very little to offer the rank and file.

The Salafist/Wahabbists are also trying to recreate Islam to the Mohammed-style level...these authenticity movements are doomed to failure because they look backwards to something that has already been established and cannot be replicated.

There is a school of thought that believes Islam negates any kind of democracy because religion and the state is intertwined so completely that there is little difference. No seperation of church and state for certain. If you do have a secular dictatorship, then King Hussain in Jordan is about the best case scenario for the rank and file. Western educated, generally tolerant regime, big time hatred against any form of Islamic radicalism.

In many of these countries, the basic necessities of life are not a given. Potable water, decent health care, power grids that work, food that won't poison you after consumption, etc...in many cases, they just don't exist. Although Afghanistan is at the far extreme of suck, there's 600 miles of paved road, 40 miles of railroad, no electrical grid, potable water is scarce, they use human feces as fertilizer, etc...

I'm not sure what the answer is. We used to joke that big screen TVs, a satillite dish with access to adult movies, clean water, power plants and hospitals would get the youth turned on to what we're selling, but there is a recidivist population no matter what...in many remote places in the Middle East, the only person who can read or write is the local mullah, so the people are dependent on him for almost all information and advice. It's grim.

All of that being said, there are a lot of shitheads in the Islamic world that need killing. We have thousands of ways to do that, it's easy.

It's a lot harder building a world for people who live in despondancy.