Current councilmember and mayoral candidate Tom Butt

Bucky wrote:EDIT: oops, that wasn't an oil company guy who said that. it was a critic.

Maybe not but they are all thinking it.

all you have to do is look at the lobbying the oil and auto industries in this country have done the past several decades to know it's true. they don't need to come out and say it.

Bucky wrote:JFC

Last year, Chevron Corp. reported more than $21 billion in net income and $220 billion in revenue. Kilbreth said the company has the resources, but not the desire to improve efficiency and reduce pollution at its refinery.

“Pollution is free, so there is no economic reason to reduce it,” Kilbreth wrote.

More like Killbreath amirite?

are you saying past twin's great slugger harmon didn't like beer

maybe one of you law or politics people can comb through this and tell me i'm wrong, but to me it sure looks like an LDS church leader dodging questions about the church's use of child labor using the Hobby Lobby decision.

https://ecf.utd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/sh ... cv0281-121

Mr. Steed states that he has made religious vows "not to discuss matters related to the internal affairs or organization of the Fundamental Church of Jesus Christ and LDS" and if required to give such testimony he would be "directly violating [his] sincerely held religious beliefs"

Seems ridiculous that you can just say "it's against my beliefs to talk about this" when dealing with something like potential child labor violations.

Hobby Lobby berf control decision + multiple wives = EXPANDED WORK FORCE OF CHEAP LABOR!

Frikkin' brilliant! Now, how do I make my chlorine gas and fireworks factory Mormon?

Just an FYI, but the FLDS is pretty much a cult (i.e. this is Warren Jeffs' church) and is rejected by the mainstream LDS church. Using them as representative of the LDS is akin to saying all Philadelphia fans vomit on little girls. Given that it's a cult, they'll likely lose their case.

Polar Bear Phan wrote:Just an FYI, but the FLDS is pretty much a cult (i.e. this is Warren Jeffs' church) and is rejected by the mainstream LDS church. Using them as representative of the LDS is akin to saying all Philadelphia fans vomit on little girls. Given that it's a cult, they'll likely lose their case.

There's no value judgment on a religious organization though.

The Hobby Lobby case relied on the RFRA, which does not apply to the states. It is irrelevant to whether a religious organization must comply with child labor laws. An individual state may have passed its own version of the RFRA, but that's a separate question decided entirely under state law. Nineteen states have done so, but I don't know where Jeffs' organization is based.

Hobby Lobby believed lies about what did and didn't create abortions, and the Court decided HL's misinformed opinion was to be respected over its employees' medical insurance coverage. The science was not a part of the decision. I fail to see why this misinformed opinion is any less valid.

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:

Polar Bear Phan wrote:Just an FYI, but the FLDS is pretty much a cult (i.e. this is Warren Jeffs' church) and is rejected by the mainstream LDS church. Using them as representative of the LDS is akin to saying all Philadelphia fans vomit on little girls. Given that it's a cult, they'll likely lose their case.

There's no value judgment on a religious organization though.

The Hobby Lobby case relied on the RFRA, which does not apply to the states. It is irrelevant to whether a religious organization must comply with child labor laws. An individual state may have passed its own version of the RFRA, but that's a separate question decided entirely under state law. Nineteen states have done so, but I don't know where Jeffs' organization is based.

This is with regards to a USDoL investigation, so RFRA applies. All the judge ruled is that the DoL will need to seek means beyond interrogating Mr. Steed to investigate their case. Technically, it doesn't prohibit them from ultimately interrogating Mr. Steed (or other FLDS members) against his religious beliefs, but the DoL will need to show that they've exhausted other methods of investigation before doing so.

Regardless, it's seems likely the FLDS will lose the USDoL case in the end.

EDIT: Here's a take from an attorney on this ruling.

Bucky wrote:JFC

Last year, Chevron Corp. reported more than $21 billion in net income and $220 billion in revenue. Kilbreth said the company has the resources, but not the desire to improve efficiency and reduce pollution at its refinery.

“Pollution is free, so there is no economic reason to reduce it,” Kilbreth wrote.

Tragedy of the Commons

Polar Bear Phan wrote:

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:

Polar Bear Phan wrote:Just an FYI, but the FLDS is pretty much a cult (i.e. this is Warren Jeffs' church) and is rejected by the mainstream LDS church. Using them as representative of the LDS is akin to saying all Philadelphia fans vomit on little girls. Given that it's a cult, they'll likely lose their case.

There's no value judgment on a religious organization though.

The Hobby Lobby case relied on the RFRA, which does not apply to the states. It is irrelevant to whether a religious organization must comply with child labor laws. An individual state may have passed its own version of the RFRA, but that's a separate question decided entirely under state law. Nineteen states have done so, but I don't know where Jeffs' organization is based.

This is with regards to a USDoL investigation, so RFRA applies. All the judge ruled is that the DoL will need to seek means beyond interrogating Mr. Steed to investigate their case. Technically, it doesn't prohibit them from ultimately interrogating Mr. Steed (or other FLDS members) against his religious beliefs, but the DoL will need to show that they've exhausted other methods of investigation before doing so.

Regardless, it's seems likely the FLDS will lose the USDoL case in the end.

EDIT: Here's a take from an attorney on this ruling.

thanks, guys. this was very informative.

Looks like Jeb is running. Already sending out contribution mailers in Iowa.

Polar Bear Phan wrote:

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:

Polar Bear Phan wrote:Just an FYI, but the FLDS is pretty much a cult (i.e. this is Warren Jeffs' church) and is rejected by the mainstream LDS church. Using them as representative of the LDS is akin to saying all Philadelphia fans vomit on little girls. Given that it's a cult, they'll likely lose their case.

There's no value judgment on a religious organization though.

The Hobby Lobby case relied on the RFRA, which does not apply to the states. It is irrelevant to whether a religious organization must comply with child labor laws. An individual state may have passed its own version of the RFRA, but that's a separate question decided entirely under state law. Nineteen states have done so, but I don't know where Jeffs' organization is based.

This is with regards to a USDoL investigation, so RFRA applies. All the judge ruled is that the DoL will need to seek means beyond interrogating Mr. Steed to investigate their case. Technically, it doesn't prohibit them from ultimately interrogating Mr. Steed (or other FLDS members) against his religious beliefs, but the DoL will need to show that they've exhausted other methods of investigation before doing so.

Regardless, it's seems likely the FLDS will lose the USDoL case in the end.

EDIT: Here's a take from an attorney on this ruling.

You're right. That's what I get for not clicking on the link.

Phan In Phlorida wrote:Looks like Jeb is running. Already sending out contribution mailers in Iowa.

does he have a shot?

Anybody catch the Koch Brothers' new ad on Daily Show:

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/9y1zl ... r-coltrane

Phan In Phlorida wrote:Looks like Jeb is running. Already sending out contribution mailers in Iowa.

I don't know how to handicap Jeb's chances at the Republican nomination, but given that a lot of big money donors supposedly begged him to run last time, and that he does appear to be well-liked among Republican elite, I would think if he runs he will force a lot of others (Chris Christie, Scott Walker assuming a win on Tuesday) to reconsider and clear a path for him.

Everyone knows that the Dem nomination is Clinton's if she wants it. I know - everyone knew that in 2008 too. But there is no Barack Obama out there in the Democratic universe lurking this time.

Bush v. Clinton 2016

Didn't we fight a war not to live under a hereditary executive?

Chelsea 2020

phatj wrote:Chelsea 2020

aiiiight