thiscould also go in the mind-blowing thread:

Just two dozen or so individuals, couples and companies have given more than 80 percent of the money collected by super PACs, or $54 million, according to disclosure forms released on Monday.

before the CU ruling, the most candidates could accept from individuals at a fund-raising event was $2500 (plus another $2500 from spouse).

thephan wrote:I did not see this posted, but the VA sonogram bill will not be signed by Gov. Bob McD. It seems that most people did not understand that the procedure would require the woman to be violated with a probe to get the imagery in the bill. That is one step too far for Bob (good for him). The fallout is exciting as it is a dumbfounded mix of slamming the Governor for backing away and ducking for cover over the lack of understanding of what is spelled out in the bill (transvaginal sonogram). The meat grinder is going to chew up a lot of people inside the state Government and in the influence group communities, especially those going with the 'who cares' line of attack to push the bill through. I sense a seismic shift in the political landscape in VA unless this goes away immediately.

It's something he was for the entire way until he realized it would doom his vice-prez chances. He's a fraud.

Also, a bunch of old men didn't understand the procedure? You don't say?

thephan wrote:I did not see this posted, but the VA sonogram bill will not be signed by Gov. Bob McD. It seems that most people did not understand that the procedure would require the woman to be violated with a probe to get the imagery in the bill. That is one step too far for Bob (good for him). The fallout is exciting as it is a dumbfounded mix of slamming the Governor for backing away and ducking for cover over the lack of understanding of what is spelled out in the bill (transvaginal sonogram). The meat grinder is going to chew up a lot of people inside the state Government and in the influence group communities, especially those going with the 'who cares' line of attack to push the bill through. I sense a seismic shift in the political landscape in VA unless this goes away immediately.

I posted his statement a few pages back with a few comments, but it got buried by debate posts that night. He was calling for an amended bill that significantly weakens the requirement and does not mandate transvaginal ultrasounds when that is the only plausible method of determining gestational age. Both bills were amended to include Governor McDonnell's proposed language (which was essentially the same language that Democratic Del. Dave Englin proposed in the House two weeks ago and was rejected in a party-line vote). The Senate bill was passed by the House, but the Senate still has to take action on it and the patron (Vogel) has said she'd strike the bill rather than have it pass in watered-down form. So technically the Senate bill is still alive but in death throes.

The House ultrasound bill is still alive in the Senate and is on the floor calendar today. Based on what happened yesterday on the Senate floor with the personhood bill (unexpectedly being re-referred to committee and carried over to next year), who knows what'll happen today.

But McDonnell hasn't said he wouldn't sign the bill. The amended bill is what he specifically requested. His statement from Wednesday was very odd though, because it only mentioned one of the bills... suggesting he may not have been getting cooperation from Senate Republicans.

pacino wrote:

thephan wrote:I did not see this posted, but the VA sonogram bill will not be signed by Gov. Bob McD. It seems that most people did not understand that the procedure would require the woman to be violated with a probe to get the imagery in the bill. That is one step too far for Bob (good for him). The fallout is exciting as it is a dumbfounded mix of slamming the Governor for backing away and ducking for cover over the lack of understanding of what is spelled out in the bill (transvaginal sonogram). The meat grinder is going to chew up a lot of people inside the state Government and in the influence group communities, especially those going with the 'who cares' line of attack to push the bill through. I sense a seismic shift in the political landscape in VA unless this goes away immediately.

It's something he was for Katherine entire way until he realized it would doom his vice-prez chances. He's a fraud.

Also, a bunch of old men didn't understand the procedure? You don't say?

They understood the procedure just fine. I watched the House debate an amendment about the requirement of a transvaginal ultrasound for over half an hour a couple of weeks ago. Two doctors who are (Republican) delegates stood up and said they had no problem with the bill in its original form. Those same delegates all voted to amend the bill at McDonnell's request.

What they didn't understand was the political fallout.

I know jh likes Super Pacs because they will give Republicans an advantage in November, but it really is embarassing.

Bill Maher gave a million to the president's super pac

gotta fight fire with fire

azrider wrote:

Monkeyboy wrote: but it's ok because Mitt is white and he's mormon.

actually being mormon is not ok, especially to the socially conservative aka the religious right, the same people who think obama is muslim. hell, even with the rather large mormon population out here in az, they are discriminated against in the polls by a large amount of those who are far from even considered being the religious right. the only reason nappy became governor out here was because she ran against a mormon.

I must have missed the calls for Mitt's birth certificate. Mormons are Christians, you know, not like those Godless Muslims.

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:They understood the procedure just fine. I watched the House debate an amendment about the requirement of a transvaginal ultrasound for over half an hour a couple of weeks ago. Two doctors who are (Republican) delegates stood up and said they had no problem with the bill in its original form. Those same delegates all voted to amend the bill at McDonnell's request.

What they didn't understand was the political fallout.

Wow - It is being played out here in NVa as a surprise that none of the politicos understood that a woman would under go such an invasive procedure. That is very interesting spin to grasp that it was presented. To be fair, I was not clear on the procedure required and assumed that it was the standard ultrasound. I will also say that my wife had a huge number of ultra sounds for our two children, but I never saw the procedure the bill would require.

thephan wrote:

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:They understood the procedure just fine. I watched the House debate an amendment about the requirement of a transvaginal ultrasound for over half an hour a couple of weeks ago. Two doctors who are (Republican) delegates stood up and said they had no problem with the bill in its original form. Those same delegates all voted to amend the bill at McDonnell's request.

What they didn't understand was the political fallout.

Wow - It is being played out here in NVa as a surprise that none of the politicos understood that a woman would under go such an invasive procedure. That is very interesting spin to grasp that it was presented. To be fair, I was not clear on the procedure required and assumed that it was the standard ultrasound. I will also say that my wife had a huge number of ultra sounds for our two children, but I never saw the procedure the bill would require.

You probably just don't remember the early ones.

And to be fair I'm not saying that it was never a surprise... just that it wasn't exactly a surprise when the issue blew up this week. Both houses voted in favor of the original bill after the objections were first raised.

Here's a pretty detailed piece from the WaPost setting out the timeline for the Senate bill. http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/2012/02/23/gIQAU4KnWR_story.html I think it shortsells people like Janet Howell and Dave Englin, who were pretty explicit about what would be required, but just didn't use inflammatory language like "rape" in their floor speeches. Other than that, the article does a pretty good job recapping things.

supposedly an even harsher bill is in the works here in PA. women will have to get the procedure, then bring a printout from the ultrasound doctor to the potential abortion doctor

td11 wrote:thiscould also go in the mind-blowing thread:

Just two dozen or so individuals, couples and companies have given more than 80 percent of the money collected by super PACs, or $54 million, according to disclosure forms released on Monday.

before the CU ruling, the most candidates could accept from individuals at a fund-raising event was $2500 (plus another $2500 from spouse).

The most candidates can accept for their campaigns at fundraising events is still $2,500 (for the primary).

Yeah, because that is the point td is making.

I got the New York Times' point. Super PACs have become the latest vehicle for rich people to give a lot of money to influence election outcomes. td's statement did not really follow from theirs.

I'd rather live in a world with Superpacs than a world with unlimited soft money.

TenuredVulture wrote:And how do you define neighborhood? And does it include say national guard recruits? And if it includes rural areas (where lots of recruits come from) including small towns then you should understand that neighborhoods outside of metropolitan areas are socio-economically quite diverse and thus the chart is bullshit.

http://www.heritage.org/research/report ... d-officers

Please point to other data if you have it.

The Defense Manpower Data Center provided The Heritage Foundation with data on enlisted recruits for all branches of the military in 2006 and 2007.[3] These data included the recruits' racial and ethnic background, their educational attainment when they enlisted, and information connecting recruits to their home census tracts. Using census tracts enables a more precise analysis of the recruits' family income than previous Heritage Foundation reports, which had data available only at the three-digit and five-digit Zip code tabulation area level.

Enlisted recruits in 2006 and 2007 came primarily from middle-class and upper-middle-class backgrounds. Low-income neighborhoods were underrepresented among enlisted troops, while middle-class and high-income neighborhoods were overrepresented.

Individual or family income data on enlistees do not exist. The Defense Department does not maintain records on the household income of recruits or officers. Examining the earnings of most recruits before they joined the military is not possible because, for most of them, their first full-time job is in the military.

You're expecting about 1200 people to show up for a major campaign speech. So you book the speech at Detroit's Ford Field. And you make sure everyone knows that your wife has not one, but two Cadillacs.

The Nightman Cometh wrote:I know jh likes Super Pacs because they will give Republicans an advantage in November, but it really is embarassing.

My impression is that spending in support of Obama will be higher than Republican spending in the general, even with Super PACs. Is that a bad guess?

Werthless wrote:

The Nightman Cometh wrote:I know jh likes Super Pacs because they will give Republicans an advantage in November, but it really is embarassing.

My impression is that spending in support of Obama will be higher than Republican spending in the general, even with Super PACs. Is that a bad guess?

Probably not, incumbent advantage and all that noise

The Nightman Cometh wrote:Yeah, because that is the point td is making.

Thanks, mcgraw, yeah i shouldn't have used "was" in my sentence. Just wanted to point out how different the game is post-CU.