Politics: Spreading Santorum All Over This Great Nation

Re: Politics: Spreading Santorum All Over This Great Nation

Postby jerseyhoya » Tue Feb 21, 2012 21:50:53

lethal wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:You have to keep your residence in your home state if you're running for reelection otherwise you are running afoul of the Constitution. Santorum always had a house in Pennsylvania, but it wasn't big and I think he rented it out for at least part of the time he was in Congress. By keeping two real houses, I meant owning two houses large enough to house you and your wife and your seven kids might be tough to swing comfortably on $175k a year. If you're asking people to live within their means, owning a big house that you don't use seems like a good place to start cutting.

Note I said small residence, apartment, pied a terre at the place that the rest of your family does not reside in. A person making 175K a year should be able to afford that.

But everyone has to have one of those at minimum. The debate is over where you spend your time when Congress isn't meeting...where you really live.

Or in Lugar's case saying you live at a place you sold 35 years ago.

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Re: Politics: Spreading Santorum All Over This Great Nation

Postby dajafi » Tue Feb 21, 2012 21:58:27

Was kinda bummed to see that about Lugar, who always struck me as something of a throwback in terms of being a principled, and pretty conservative, Republican who nonetheless respected the tradition of unity in foreign policy and occasionally would get in the mood to legislate rather than just sling red meat.

His Beltway-ness probably contributed to all that. Isn't it commonly said that the reason these guys all fucking hate each other now is because they spend most of their time in town not on the floor raising money, and then they race home every weekend? No chance to get to know each other socially, etc.

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Re: Politics: Spreading Santorum All Over This Great Nation

Postby The Nightman Cometh » Tue Feb 21, 2012 22:07:50

I don't see how it makes him any less principled. As long as a representative does good by his constituents, I don't see an issue of residence being relevant. At worst he should have been more up front about it. If the electorate doesn't have a problem with a United States citizen not residing in their state I certainly don't have any reason to object.
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Re: Politics: Spreading Santorum All Over This Great Nation

Postby jerseyhoya » Tue Feb 21, 2012 22:10:00

The Nightman Cometh wrote:I don't see how it makes him any less principled. As long as a representative does good by his constituents, I don't see an issue of residence being relevant. At worst he should have been more up front about it. If the electorate doesn't have a problem with a United States citizen not residing in their state I certainly don't have any reason to object.

It's a basic constitutional requirement

He owns property in the state and has tons of roots there and I'm sure spends plenty of time there. I don't think this is a big deal or disqualifying from office, it's just tremendously effing stupid.

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Re: Politics: Spreading Santorum All Over This Great Nation

Postby The Nightman Cometh » Tue Feb 21, 2012 22:16:27

Yeah I understand that it is a basic requirement on federal and probably state level, but I think you can pretty easily make an argument it's one of those things that doesn't have much practical usefulness. If the majority of New Jersyians want to elect a democrat or republican who resides in Philadelphia, why not?
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Re: Politics: Spreading Santorum All Over This Great Nation

Postby lethal » Tue Feb 21, 2012 23:00:05

jerseyhoya wrote:
lethal wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:You have to keep your residence in your home state if you're running for reelection otherwise you are running afoul of the Constitution. Santorum always had a house in Pennsylvania, but it wasn't big and I think he rented it out for at least part of the time he was in Congress. By keeping two real houses, I meant owning two houses large enough to house you and your wife and your seven kids might be tough to swing comfortably on $175k a year. If you're asking people to live within their means, owning a big house that you don't use seems like a good place to start cutting.

Note I said small residence, apartment, pied a terre at the place that the rest of your family does not reside in. A person making 175K a year should be able to afford that.

But everyone has to have one of those at minimum. The debate is over where you spend your time when Congress isn't meeting...where you really live.

Or in Lugar's case saying you live at a place you sold 35 years ago.


Personally, I don't think they should have to maintain 2 full residences. If they want to move the family to DC, but keep an apartment in Indianapolis and pay taxes as an Indiana resident, that's enough for me. Didn't George Bush the elder claim Texas residency via his 2 weeks a year in a Houston hotel while in government service? That was fine for me too. Just don't claim residence at a place that you sold and have no way to actually live in. That's just dumb.

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Re: Politics: Spreading Santorum All Over This Great Nation

Postby Monkeyboy » Wed Feb 22, 2012 03:34:09

If santorum doesn't somehow steal this thing from Mitt, he's going to help Mitt by making him look like less of an extremist. It's the Huntsman effect.... surround yourself with crazy people and then you look bipartisan and centrist by comparison, even though you're anything but.
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Re: Politics: Spreading Santorum All Over This Great Nation

Postby Luzinski's Gut » Wed Feb 22, 2012 08:22:05

Somewhat similar story: friend of mine is a Marine officer, pretty high up the ranks. Had to brief Michelle Bachman a few years ago, said that not only was she dumber than a jar of Hellman's, she was also batshit insane when it came to foreign policy.


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cshort wrote:Who's rooming with Barney Frank? On the other hand, there'd be a long line for Kristi Noem.


Did a professional development event recently with a lobbyist who knows pretty much all these clowns. He described Noem as among the dumbest human beings he's ever met.

That said: yeah, I probably would
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Re: Politics: Spreading Santorum All Over This Great Nation

Postby td11 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 09:40:50

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Re: Politics: Spreading Santorum All Over This Great Nation

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Feb 22, 2012 09:50:14

Haven't had coffee yet so maybe I'm being too harsh but establishing a minimum tax on foreign earnings by US corporations is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever read

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Re: Politics: Spreading Santorum All Over This Great Nation

Postby drsmooth » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:08:00

jerseyhoya wrote:Haven't had coffee yet so maybe I'm being too harsh but establishing a minimum tax on foreign earnings by US corporations is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever read


it reads dumber than assertions that US corps actually pay the highest corp tax rates of anyplace in the world, I'll grant you that
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Re: Politics: Spreading Santorum All Over This Great Nation

Postby TenuredVulture » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:51:04

The Nightman Cometh wrote:Yeah I understand that it is a basic requirement on federal and probably state level, but I think you can pretty easily make an argument it's one of those things that doesn't have much practical usefulness. If the majority of New Jersyians want to elect a democrat or republican who resides in Philadelphia, why not?



Because the US Constitutions says so. You really should check that document out. It's full of all kinds of interesting nuggets.
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Re: Politics: Spreading Santorum All Over This Great Nation

Postby td11 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:07:41

drsmooth wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Haven't had coffee yet so maybe I'm being too harsh but establishing a minimum tax on foreign earnings by US corporations is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever read


it reads dumber than assertions that US corps actually pay the highest corp tax rates of anyplace in the world, I'll grant you that



tell me why that part of it is dumb (sincere query)
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Re: Politics: Spreading Santorum All Over This Great Nation

Postby The Nightman Cometh » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:09:39

TenuredVulture wrote:
The Nightman Cometh wrote:Yeah I understand that it is a basic requirement on federal and probably state level, but I think you can pretty easily make an argument it's one of those things that doesn't have much practical usefulness. If the majority of New Jersyians want to elect a democrat or republican who resides in Philadelphia, why not?



Because the US Constitutions says so. You really should check that document out. It's full of all kinds of interesting nuggets.

I was being rhetorical.
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Re: Politics: Spreading Santorum All Over This Great Nation

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:21:37

td11 wrote:
drsmooth wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Haven't had coffee yet so maybe I'm being too harsh but establishing a minimum tax on foreign earnings by US corporations is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever read


it reads dumber than assertions that US corps actually pay the highest corp tax rates of anyplace in the world, I'll grant you that


tell me why that part of it is dumb (sincere query)

As the Simpson-Bowles Fiscal Commission that the White House put together in 2010 put it:

The corporate income tax, meanwhile, hurts America’s ability to compete. On the one hand, statutory rates in the U.S. are significantly higher than the average for industrialized countries (even as revenue collection is low), and our method of taxing foreign income is outside the norm. The U.S. is one of the only industrialized countries with a hybrid system of taxing active foreign-source income. The current system puts U.S. corporations at a competitive disadvantage against their foreign competitors. A territorial tax system should be adopted to help put the U.S. system in line with other countries, leveling the playing field.


Instead of harmonizing our corporate tax application with the rest of the industrialized world the plan doubles down on the current dumb policy.

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Re: Politics: Spreading Santorum All Over This Great Nation

Postby lethal » Wed Feb 22, 2012 13:00:10

jerseyhoya wrote:Haven't had coffee yet so maybe I'm being too harsh but establishing a minimum tax on foreign earnings by US corporations is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever read


I'd have to get more details before forming an opinion. Big news in my field of work, obviously.

Also, roughly 0% chance of any of this passing before the election.

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Re: Politics: Spreading Santorum All Over This Great Nation

Postby TenuredVulture » Wed Feb 22, 2012 13:24:20

jerseyhoya wrote:
td11 wrote:
drsmooth wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Haven't had coffee yet so maybe I'm being too harsh but establishing a minimum tax on foreign earnings by US corporations is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever read


it reads dumber than assertions that US corps actually pay the highest corp tax rates of anyplace in the world, I'll grant you that


tell me why that part of it is dumb (sincere query)

As the Simpson-Bowles Fiscal Commission that the White House put together in 2010 put it:

The corporate income tax, meanwhile, hurts America’s ability to compete. On the one hand, statutory rates in the U.S. are significantly higher than the average for industrialized countries (even as revenue collection is low), and our method of taxing foreign income is outside the norm. The U.S. is one of the only industrialized countries with a hybrid system of taxing active foreign-source income. The current system puts U.S. corporations at a competitive disadvantage against their foreign competitors. A territorial tax system should be adopted to help put the U.S. system in line with other countries, leveling the playing field.


Instead of harmonizing our corporate tax application with the rest of the industrialized world the plan doubles down on the current dumb policy.


So you're saying let the UN devise our corporate tax policy? No thank you comrade.
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Re: Politics: Spreading Santorum All Over This Great Nation

Postby drsmooth » Wed Feb 22, 2012 15:48:30

jerseyhoya wrote:Instead of harmonizing our corporate tax application with the rest of the industrialized world the plan doubles down on the current dumb policy.


Our economy towers over the national economies of the rest of the industrialized world, you socialist running pig dog harmonizer-appeaser.

EDIT: oh, and damn you, TV
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Re: Politics: Spreading Santorum All Over This Great Nation

Postby RichmondPhilsFan » Wed Feb 22, 2012 16:32:12

VA Gov. McDonnell in self-preservation mode. These amendments he's "proposing" were soundly rejected by the House of Delegates (64-34) over a week ago when they were offered by Dave Englin on the House version of SB 484.

He said only a few days ago that he'd sign the bill... now he has concerns. What, he missed the discussion when it first came up?

Statement of Governor Bob McDonnell on SB 484

RICHMOND – Governor Bob McDonnell issued the following statement today regarding SB 484, a bill before the General Assembly that would require an ultrasound prior to an abortion being performed.

“I am pro-life. I believe deeply in the sanctity of innocent human life and believe governments have a duty to protect human life. The more our society embraces a culture of life for all people, the better country we will have. Over the course of my 20-year career in elected office, I have been glad to play a leading role in putting in place common-sense policies that protect and defend innocent human life in the Commonwealth. One of those bills was Virginia’s informed consent statute, of which I was the chief patron in the House of Delegates, finally seeing its passage in 2001. This session, the General Assembly is now considering amending this informed consent statute to include a requirement that any woman seeking an abortion receive an ultrasound in order to establish the gestational age for appropriate medical purposes, and to offer a woman the opportunity to voluntarily review that ultrasound prior to giving her legal informed consent to abortion.

Over the past days I have discussed the specific language of the proposed legislation with other governors, physicians, attorneys, legislators, advocacy groups, and citizens. It is apparent that several amendments to the proposed legislation are needed to address various medical and legal issues which have arisen. It is clear that in the majority of cases, a routine external, transabdominal ultrasound is sufficient to meet the bills stated purpose, that is, to determine gestational age. I have come to understand that the medical practice and standard of care currently guide physicians to use other procedures to find the gestational age of the child, when abdominal ultrasounds cannot do so. Determining gestational age is essential for legal reasons, to know the trimester of the pregnancy in order to comply with the law, and for medical reasons as well.

Thus, having looked at the current proposal, I believe there is no need to direct by statute that further invasive ultrasound procedures be done. Mandating an invasive procedure in order to give informed consent is not a proper role for the state. No person should be directed to undergo an invasive procedure by the state, without their consent, as a precondition to another medical procedure.

For this reason, I have recommended to the General Assembly a series of amendments to this bill. I am requesting that the General Assembly amend this bill to explicitly state that no woman in Virginia will have to undergo a transvaginal ultrasound involuntarily. I am asking the General Assembly to state in this legislation that only a transabdominal, or external, ultrasound will be required to satisfy the requirements to determine gestational age. Should a doctor determine that another form of ultrasound may be necessary to provide the necessary images and information that will be an issue for the doctor and the patient. The government will have no role in that medical decision.

I have requested other amendments that help clarify the purposes of the bill and reflect a better understanding of prevailing medical practices. It is my hope that the members of the General Assembly will act favorably upon these recommendations from our office. We will await their action prior to making any further comments on this matter.”


We discussed McDonnell in the previous thread. This is the sort of thing to which I was referring when I said he was a consummate politician. As in a disingenuous spinmeister. This wasn't a new issue... it's been raised and raised and raised. It's been a headline here in Richmond for a couple of weeks--with the associated public opinion polls showing people were against it. It's only now that it's hitting the national level--MSNBC, SNL, the Daily Show, etc.--that suddenly he realizes the bill overreaches.

And as I'm typing this, I'm watching the Senator who patroned this bill is saying the same stuff that McDonnell did in his statement. Hilarious.

Whoa, and she said she intends to strike the bill. There's a House version before the Senate, and the House just advanced McDonnell's substitute for the Senate version, so I have no idea what's going to happen here. Wild stuff.

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Re: Politics: Spreading Santorum All Over This Great Nation

Postby drsmooth » Wed Feb 22, 2012 17:55:14

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:
Statement of Governor Bob McDonnell on SB 484

RICHMOND – Governor Bob McDonnell issued the following statement today regarding SB 484, a bill before the General Assembly that would require an ultrasound prior to an abortion being performed:

“Good morning.

I am Rachel Maddow's bitch.

Thank you."


Yes, but in a double utley you can put your utley on top they other guy's utley, and you're the winner. (Swish)

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