So you don't begrudge people for doing things that are wrong. Criminals and evildoers are just working the system?

we need an ethics thread

I've said it before, but Crashburn can't be a real person

1 wrote:we need an ethics thread

chyeah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism

pyramid power has a wikipedia page, too

You should all save yourselves the time and effort and just argue with a wall.

[/discussion]

[/thread]

[/forum]

[/Internet]

CrashburnAlley wrote:

Slowhand wrote:So if those guys at the IHOP had $#@! your $#@! up the other night we shouldn't feel sorry for you because WTF were you doing out that late anyway hanging out in a place that had thugs there?

I'm simply saying I have no sympathy for someone who got robbed after making a habit of leaving his front door ajar. You're asking for it. Best Buy, in this situation, is asking for it.

I don't think you'd be wrong to lack sympathy for me in the situation you outline above, especially if I knew the details of the situation.

I think you can make a strong moral argument that what the person in question did was wrong. I'm certainly not denying that. But without punishment, I don't begrudge for taking advantage of it and certainly don't judge him for doing so.

Not getting caught does not equal no punishment.

yeah, it's wrong, but god knows my broke ass would do it. i'm just too lazy.

Does anyone have any experience with being annoyed at a long-term gift giver? Is it ever OK to be annoyed about the gift giving behavior of someone you exchange gifts with? Or is the rule that you are supposed to just be grateful for the fact that someone cared enough to put in the effort to provide you with any gift at all?

phdave wrote:Does anyone have any experience with being annoyed at a long-term gift giver? Is it ever OK to be annoyed about the gift giving behavior of someone you exchange gifts with? Or is the rule that you are supposed to just be grateful for the fact that someone cared enough to put in the effort to provide you with any gift at all?

If you're getting them something decent, I think you're within your rights to get pissed about them giving you useless crap. I don't think it's worth complaining to the person about unless the sums of money being spent on the exchanged gifts are substantial.

Eh, I've received some crappy gifts (and probably given some as well) in my time, and have been in situations where I clearly put more thought into a gift, or more money or both, than the other person. Can't say it ever bothered me even a little bit.

jerseyhoya wrote:

phdave wrote:Does anyone have any experience with being annoyed at a long-term gift giver? Is it ever OK to be annoyed about the gift giving behavior of someone you exchange gifts with? Or is the rule that you are supposed to just be grateful for the fact that someone cared enough to put in the effort to provide you with any gift at all?

If you're getting them something decent, I think you're within your rights to get pissed about them giving you useless crap. I don't think it's worth complaining to the person about unless the sums of money being spent on the exchanged gifts are substantial.

The weird thing is that the problem is the opposite (sort of). The amount of gifts is usually over the top. It's usually a mixture of substantial gifts with some useless crap.

The gift-giving goal seems to be to be thought of as an impressive gift giver rather than to give something needed/wanted and to have the unwrapping of the gifts last for a substantial period of time. I didn't mind this at first but lately I find myself irritated when gifts are exchanged. I'd be happy with one gift but when I discussed this possibility with family members, I was told that this would spoil the gift giver's fun. That only added to my irritation as I feel like a bystander in the gift-giver's self gratification.

Plus I'm trying to limit the number of things I don't want/use filling up space in my house. I end up giving/throwing away many of these gifts unused after they sit around for a few years.

I feel bad feeling irritated but that's how I feel. I also can't really discuss this irritation with any family members without hurting feelings.

As long as that person doesn't expect you to go all out like that and buy tons of gifts for them, or try to make you feel guilty, ungrateful, inferior or whatever, then I don't see a huge problem with it. An annoyance that you have a bunch of useless crap, sure. But it's probably not worth making an issue over it. Choose your battles.

jerseyhoya wrote:

Woody wrote:This is basic return fraud, regardless of whether "you're only getting store credit." It's hardly any different than stealing an item from one store and returning it to another. This kind of stuff costs retailers billions per year

Savvy

Yes, it's wrong to lie, but this kind of stuff does not cost retailers billions per year. Lethal's posts from an earlier page did a very nice job of explaining why.

I can completely relate, phdave. My wife has an aunt who gives ridiculous amounts of gifts, birthday cards, Memorial Day cards, Arbor Day cards, you name it. It seemed to trickle down to the rest of the family, who all gave each other gifts for Christmas. So on Christmas Eve (their traditional exchange day), like 16 people were all giving gifts to one another. This was absurd because a) it took like 2 hours and b) everyone ended up getting completely useless crap.

So I mentioned to my wife that it was way out of control, so she brought up the idea of a Secret Santa exchange among the family. 15 people thought it was the greatest idea ever; her aunt hated it. So the Secret Santa exchange went on, with each person pulling a name with a list of things they actually want and just getting that person a gift. It went great. Except the aunt still bought everyone useless crap. This is now in its third year. I guess you can't change people, but at least it got everyone else to have more fun and recognize her craziness. Don't know if that helps, but if not, passive aggressive behavior always works swimmingly in family settings!

In my junior year of college, there was a small piece of paper about the size of my palm on the floor, right next to the door. It was there for about a month because nobody knew who's it was and we decided we would take care of it in three months while we were moving out. One day, I came back from class and my roomates were playing Super Smash Brothers in my room. I sat down at my computer, then played a game or two of Smash and noticed that the paper was no longer by the foot of the door. I looked around and found it next to my chair. I asked everyone in the room if they moved it but nobody claimed they had. This irked the room so much that we did some research, and found out I had stepped in gum on my way back from class. We reenacted the situation before concluding that I stepped on the paper coming in, with the gum losing adhesiveness when I stomped my foot in disgust after poor play in Smash, thus ultimately uncovering the mystery of the Moving Piece of Paper. My roomate threw it out later that day.

It helps to hear others with similar stories. I don't plan on making any any kind of issue about it because there would be no point. Actually, at one point someone did ask the gift giver to tone it down but nothing really changed.

I think I'm probably noticing this more now that my wife and I switched from giving each other a bunch of presents to just one or two things each Christmas/Birthday and we are really happy. We also started doing things for each other as gifts rather than buying stuff and I enjoy it much more.

What crash doesn't seem to realize is that Best Buy has a policy that BENEFITS the consumer. So his solution is to commit fraud and have said policy stop.

phdave, it's cool that you have a gift giving policy that works for you, but your mother in law has a gift giving policy that works for her. As long as neither of you complains that the other doesn't reciprocate, you're both fine. Just continue to put some thought into your gift and you'll have clean hands.

mickbayne wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:

Woody wrote:This is basic return fraud, regardless of whether "you're only getting store credit." It's hardly any different than stealing an item from one store and returning it to another. This kind of stuff costs retailers billions per year

Savvy

Yes, it's wrong to lie, but this kind of stuff does not cost retailers billions per year. Lethal's posts from an earlier page did a very nice job of explaining why.

I promise you return fraud costs retailers in the US billions of dollars per year. Unless of course you were talking about the very specific quasi-arbitrage-bought-elsewhere-cheaper-and-returned-for-store-credit type of fraud mentioned in this thread.