Woody wrote:you're too old for this kind of technology dude. i'm amazed you even know how to post here

Ad hominem

Ok, here's another question--I doubt it will be a big problem, as this is Lil' Vulture's ipod and I don't think she'll be wanting Bartok on it anytime soon, but why does itunes recognize only half of the music files on my computer? Almost all of them were ripped from cds.

Where the hell are all the nail clippers?

There's like 6 of them in the little metal dish by the microwave.

I was out with a buncha folks from my college paper today, and the Phils came up in our discussion once or twice. I almost blurted out a BSG handle or two when talking about the Halladay trade, so that was sorta strange. Of course, the open bar didn't help my discussion of it, nor did it help me make a clean getaway in the afternoon. I had to sit in my car for an hour to fully sober up.

I really wouldn't think I'd be saying this because you seem relatively modern and hip and all, TV - but the questions you're asking and the problems you're having officially reveal you as an old coot who needs to stop. Lil Vulture can and probably should figure this out for herself and let dad go play with the remote control, or whatever the last level of technology you really felt comfortable using was.

I don't think that's it at all. I think the good folks at apple have created a cult. Really--why are people buying ipods at all? They're more expensive and less useful that ordinary mp3 players.

You clearly never owned an mp3 player before iPods hit the market.

Woody wrote:You clearly never owned an mp3 player before iPods hit the market.

What does that have to do with anything? I've owned several since then. I don't deny the interface on the ipod device is nice to use. But the fact that you have to use itunes with it is a huge pain. Add to that the fact that the ipod is way more expensive than comparable mp3 player and I don't see why they're so popular.

I understand the whole point of apple is to decommodify technology, thus allowing for higher margins on the devices and locking people in to using apple services to run those devices.

It's kind of like organic produce I suppose. Charge people a higher price for some ugly dented piece of fruit and convince them it's better.

come on, tv is right. itunes is crap and designed to make most people try and buy songs over and over

pacino wrote:come on, tv is right. itunes is crap and designed to make most people try and buy songs over and over

Oh. I just buy cds. Cause I'm rich and I like album art.

TV is exactly right. For example, Sansa makes a lot of good MP3 players that you can just drag and drop.

I ended up finally breaking down and buying an iPod because I wanted something I could play by sitting it in the alarm clock in my room, or the stereo downstairs. Everything is made for the iPod anymore. When I had a Zune, I couldn't find anything on the market- some stuff on the internet, but it was all $100 or more. I guess I'm not much of an audiophile.

But honestly, I still use Windows Media Player much more than iTunes.

TenuredVulture wrote:I don't think that's it at all. I think the good folks at apple have created a cult. Really--why are people buying ipods at all? They're more expensive and less useful that ordinary mp3 players.

It's not a cult, just like Windows isn't a cult. It's just what the majority uses and wants. Once you make an investment in one, it's hard to justify not getting another because you have all these other things around (like car chargers and docks and stuff). Price or niche requirement are the only thing that non-iPods really offer. I'm certain Sony or Creative or SanDisk would love to alter market demand to capture a larger share, they just can't. It's hard to separate iPod from iTunes, but I think it's too easy to blame one for the other's problems, anyway. I think the Apple control is a vicious circle - would be competitors keep throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks, creating confusing product lines and product lines that just disappear after one or two versions. Look at how different the second (though much higher rated) Zune is compared to the first one.

I'm currently in the market for a new MP3 player and I'd prefer to get something other than iPod, but as a Mac user who has spent a ridiculous amount of time organizing 45+ GB of albums and audiobooks in iTunes, and the additional investment this family has made in car adapters, car chargers, etc - even the next best "closes" are not cost or hassle comparable for my situation. MS frustratingly doesn't make the Zune compatible with Mac. SanDisk and one model of the Sony Walkman are the best reviewed non iPod's for Mac users, and both (particularly the Walkman) sound extremely frustrating to work around because they don't work with iTunes. It's like you just had to save $20 or you're trying to prove some self flagellating point by owning a non iPod if you are a Mac user.

To delete from the ipod, right-click on the song you want off there, then choose delete.

holy fuck

VoxOrion wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:I don't think that's it at all. I think the good folks at apple have created a cult. Really--why are people buying ipods at all? They're more expensive and less useful that ordinary mp3 players.

It's not a cult, just like Windows isn't a cult. It's just what the majority uses and wants. Once you make an investment in one, it's hard to justify not getting another because you have all these other things around (like car chargers and docks and stuff). Price or niche requirement are the only thing that non-iPods really offer. I'm certain Sony or Creative or SanDisk would love to alter market demand to capture a larger share, they just can't. It's hard to separate iPod from iTunes, but I think it's too easy to blame one for the other's problems, anyway. I think the Apple control is a vicious circle - would be competitors keep throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks, creating confusing product lines and product lines that just disappear after one or two versions. Look at how different the second (though much higher rated) Zune is compared to the first one.

I'm currently in the market for a new MP3 player and I'd prefer to get something other than iPod, but as a Mac user who has spent a ridiculous amount of time organizing 45+ GB of albums and audiobooks in iTunes, and the additional investment this family has made in car adapters, car chargers, etc - even the next best "closes" are not cost or hassle comparable for my situation. MS frustratingly doesn't make the Zune compatible with Mac. SanDisk and one model of the Sony Walkman are the best reviewed non iPod's for Mac users, and both (particularly the Walkman) sound extremely frustrating to work around because they don't work with iTunes. It's like you just had to save $20 or you're trying to prove some self flagellating point by owning a non iPod if you are a Mac user.

But if you never owned a mac or an ipod, none of that other stuff would matter. It's pretty easy to organize your music in windows. So, Vox's reasons pretty much boil down to the fact that he's locked in, not the inherent superiority of the device.

My question really is why has the ipod become such a big player in the MP3 market? Most people don't own macs, so that's not it. The peripherals are nice, I guess, but it seems a standard usb cable would be a lot easier to replace, and there's nothing keeping someone from designing similar devices that could be used with any mp3 player.

What I'm getting at is I'd always heard that macs were "better" in terms of being easier to use. But the ipod, my first experience with a mac product, indicates otherwise. It indicates that when you go with an apple product, you submit yourself to apple's controls and dictates. You will only be able to use your devices in ways dictated by apple. Now, giving up flexibility may be worthwhile in exchange for ease of use. But at least with the ipod, you don't get ease of use or flexibility.

Windows isn't a cult in the same way mac seems to be a cult. Windows based pcs are a commodity--one is pretty much like the other. HP/Dell/Gateway whatever, it makes no difference. People buy the cheapest one that serves their needs.

One last question--Lil' Vulture got a $15 gift certificate to the itunes store--those tracks are only playable in itunes, right?

TenuredVulture wrote:

VoxOrion wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:I don't think that's it at all. I think the good folks at apple have created a cult. Really--why are people buying ipods at all? They're more expensive and less useful that ordinary mp3 players.

It's not a cult, just like Windows isn't a cult. It's just what the majority uses and wants. Once you make an investment in one, it's hard to justify not getting another because you have all these other things around (like car chargers and docks and stuff). Price or niche requirement are the only thing that non-iPods really offer. I'm certain Sony or Creative or SanDisk would love to alter market demand to capture a larger share, they just can't. It's hard to separate iPod from iTunes, but I think it's too easy to blame one for the other's problems, anyway. I think the Apple control is a vicious circle - would be competitors keep throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks, creating confusing product lines and product lines that just disappear after one or two versions. Look at how different the second (though much higher rated) Zune is compared to the first one.

I'm currently in the market for a new MP3 player and I'd prefer to get something other than iPod, but as a Mac user who has spent a ridiculous amount of time organizing 45+ GB of albums and audiobooks in iTunes, and the additional investment this family has made in car adapters, car chargers, etc - even the next best "closes" are not cost or hassle comparable for my situation. MS frustratingly doesn't make the Zune compatible with Mac. SanDisk and one model of the Sony Walkman are the best reviewed non iPod's for Mac users, and both (particularly the Walkman) sound extremely frustrating to work around because they don't work with iTunes. It's like you just had to save $20 or you're trying to prove some self flagellating point by owning a non iPod if you are a Mac user.

But if you never owned a mac or an ipod, none of that other stuff would matter. It's pretty easy to organize your music in windows. So, Vox's reasons pretty much boil down to the fact that he's locked in, not the inherent superiority of the device.

My question really is why has the ipod become such a big player in the MP3 market?

Woody already answered that. MP3 players sucked until the iPod came out.

philliesphhan wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:

VoxOrion wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:I don't think that's it at all. I think the good folks at apple have created a cult. Really--why are people buying ipods at all? They're more expensive and less useful that ordinary mp3 players.

It's not a cult, just like Windows isn't a cult. It's just what the majority uses and wants. Once you make an investment in one, it's hard to justify not getting another because you have all these other things around (like car chargers and docks and stuff). Price or niche requirement are the only thing that non-iPods really offer. I'm certain Sony or Creative or SanDisk would love to alter market demand to capture a larger share, they just can't. It's hard to separate iPod from iTunes, but I think it's too easy to blame one for the other's problems, anyway. I think the Apple control is a vicious circle - would be competitors keep throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks, creating confusing product lines and product lines that just disappear after one or two versions. Look at how different the second (though much higher rated) Zune is compared to the first one.

I'm currently in the market for a new MP3 player and I'd prefer to get something other than iPod, but as a Mac user who has spent a ridiculous amount of time organizing 45+ GB of albums and audiobooks in iTunes, and the additional investment this family has made in car adapters, car chargers, etc - even the next best "closes" are not cost or hassle comparable for my situation. MS frustratingly doesn't make the Zune compatible with Mac. SanDisk and one model of the Sony Walkman are the best reviewed non iPod's for Mac users, and both (particularly the Walkman) sound extremely frustrating to work around because they don't work with iTunes. It's like you just had to save $20 or you're trying to prove some self flagellating point by owning a non iPod if you are a Mac user.

But if you never owned a mac or an ipod, none of that other stuff would matter. It's pretty easy to organize your music in windows. So, Vox's reasons pretty much boil down to the fact that he's locked in, not the inherent superiority of the device.

My question really is why has the ipod become such a big player in the MP3 market?

Woody already answered that. MP3 players sucked until the iPod came out.

Yeah, but that's not true any more. Other products are superior now, and considerably less expensive. I mean, do people still wear adidas because they made great tennis shoes 30 years ago?

This thread boiled down to a discussion on stealing from Best Buy and Ipods. Ideas for the next thread should include discussions on favorite lunchmeats, best magic tricks, and longest time without taking a shower in the past 5 years.