mpmcgraw wrote:

Disco Stu wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:

Disco Stu wrote:McCain was in the dumpster after his visit to Iraq. Has anything really changed since then?

Wait, what?

Changed in Iraq? Changed in the GOP primary field? Or changed heads up vs. Hillary or Obama?

Changed in his stance. He was an afterthought last summer and people were mocking him. The fact he could be president after that is kinda scary.

The thing that would make me vote for him is that I think you can actually trust McCain which would be a nice step in the right direction after Clinton and Bush.

I mean if he was willing to be tortured and possibly die in solitary confinement rather than be released before other soldiers who arrived earlier I'd say he might be more a more personable and trustable candidate than the likes of 9-11, Romney, and the christian crazy.

I can understand the like for McCain. He seems like a decent old man (unlike his mother). But is that a reason to vote for him? He is David Freakin Bell.

VoxOrion, you make some good points. A few points. Romney is a businessman. That doesn't make him pro-business. I'm not spinning McCain's immigration stance. I see being conservative about doing what's right for business. Some don't. If McCain is trying to limit free speech isn't that the conservative stance? Liberals are the big stalwarts of free speech. I don't think campaign finance reform limits free speech. It helps the people and limits free speech for rich people.

The classic definition of Republican is that Republicans believe in helping people help themselves and Democrats believe in helping people. A lot of the other things now called conservative have changed over time. Republicans used to be the party perceived as for civil rights and Democrats against them. Being conservative will constantly be redefined and change.

Americans don't like McCain because he's a war hero. I've never heard people say that. It's not about criticizing him. It's liking him or not. People like him.

What's nice about McCain is that we already know who'll play him in the movie:





For more than a year I kept referring to "Colonel McCain."

Laexile wrote:
Americans don't like McCain because he's a war hero. I've never heard people say that. It's not about criticizing him. It's liking him or not. People like him.

What makes you a war hero?

Disco Stu wrote:

mpmcgraw wrote:

Disco Stu wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:

Disco Stu wrote:McCain was in the dumpster after his visit to Iraq. Has anything really changed since then?

Wait, what?

Changed in Iraq? Changed in the GOP primary field? Or changed heads up vs. Hillary or Obama?

Changed in his stance. He was an afterthought last summer and people were mocking him. The fact he could be president after that is kinda scary.

The thing that would make me vote for him is that I think you can actually trust McCain which would be a nice step in the right direction after Clinton and Bush.

I mean if he was willing to be tortured and possibly die in solitary confinement rather than be released before other soldiers who arrived earlier I'd say he might be more a more personable and trustable candidate than the likes of 9-11, Romney, and the christian crazy.

I can understand the like for McCain. He seems like a decent old man (unlike his mother). But is that a reason to vote for him? He is David Freakin Bell.

I think you are underestimating how important character is to many people.

Honestly of Romney, Huckabee, and Hillary I'd vote for McCain 10/10 times. I don't really agree with any of their politics, but I trust McCain. Might it be just because of the bravado? Maybe, but I think all the other candidates are crap anyway at least I would like McCain.

Huckabee just slapped Romney in the face. Called it a two man race.

Heh.

Obama won North Dakota and Utah. Woohoo! Pretty much the same as McCain winning the states Republicans won't take in November... except those victories help McCain a lot more right now.

dajafi wrote:Obama won North Dakota and Utah. Woohoo! Pretty much the same as McCain winning the states Republicans won't take in November... except those victories help McCain a lot more right now.

Looks like Idaho, too

As many congressmen between those three states as the mega state of...Kentucky.

Obama wins CT

god, huckabee is boring

meatball wrote:Obama wins CT

Who is calling it?

It sort of looks like it, but it's way closer than anything they've called so far tonight.

We're looking good in Colorado and Minnesota, and I have no idea why nobody has called Kansas yet--Obama's more than 2-1 ahead, and more than half the precincts have reported in, and it's his second-home state.

Also, Fox evidently called CT for Obama... which is pretty big if it holds up.

And while I'm peeing sunshine, Clinton's margins in NJ and NY are dropping. We're getting a lot of delegates in her "backyard."

So if Huckabee wins everything close, does he get the "Rally against McCain" vibe going for him?

edit: Now they've called Kansas for Obama.

dajafi wrote:So if Huckabee wins everything close, does he get the "Rally against McCain" vibe going for him?

I don't think so. He's hated by at least as large of a swath of the party. It might be ugly as hell though.

jerseyhoya wrote:

meatball wrote:Obama wins CT

Who is calling it?

It sort of looks like it, but it's way closer than anything they've called so far tonight.

NBC and Fox

meatball wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:

meatball wrote:Obama wins CT

Who is calling it?

It sort of looks like it, but it's way closer than anything they've called so far tonight.

NBC and Fox

Cool.

Switched over to FOX. The great Haley Barbour is talking. He'd be a great Veep candidate for McCain.

jerseyhoya wrote:

meatball wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:

meatball wrote:Obama wins CT

Who is calling it?

It sort of looks like it, but it's way closer than anything they've called so far tonight.

NBC and Fox

Cool.

Switched over to FOX. The great Haley Barbour is talking. He'd be a great Veep candidate for McCain.

Oops, it was CBS, not NBC.

Laexile wrote:I see being conservative about doing what's right for business.

Allowing illegal immigration is not = what's right to business.

is trying to limit free speech isn't that the conservative stance? Liberals are the big stalwarts of free speech.

Absolutely not on both counts. Who is for and successfully implements speech codes? It ain't conservatives. Who keeps threatening to re-introduce fairness doctrine to the radio?

I don't think campaign finance reform limits free speech. It helps the people and limits free speech for rich people.

re: Campain finance: I think that's a myopic view, you're leaving out the issue ads factor. This punishes the "poor" as much as the rich. The "poor" can band together to produce issue ads without a single millionaire on the roles.

Being conservative will constantly be redefined and change.

Yeah, but it seems like you're redefining what it means to be a conservative right here, right now, on the fly. I'm not recongizing many of your "conservative" viewpoints as any I've seen reflected among conservatives.

Americans don't like McCain because he's a war hero. I've never heard people say that. It's not about criticizing him. It's liking him or not. People like him.

Dude, just this morning he did this when Romney criticized the Dole letter in support of McCain.

mpmcgraw wrote:

Disco Stu wrote:

mpmcgraw wrote:

Disco Stu wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:

Disco Stu wrote:McCain was in the dumpster after his visit to Iraq. Has anything really changed since then?

Wait, what?

Changed in Iraq? Changed in the GOP primary field? Or changed heads up vs. Hillary or Obama?

Changed in his stance. He was an afterthought last summer and people were mocking him. The fact he could be president after that is kinda scary.

The thing that would make me vote for him is that I think you can actually trust McCain which would be a nice step in the right direction after Clinton and Bush.

I mean if he was willing to be tortured and possibly die in solitary confinement rather than be released before other soldiers who arrived earlier I'd say he might be more a more personable and trustable candidate than the likes of 9-11, Romney, and the christian crazy.

I can understand the like for McCain. He seems like a decent old man (unlike his mother). But is that a reason to vote for him? He is David Freakin Bell.

I think you are underestimating how important character is to many people.

Honestly of Romney, Huckabee, and Hillary I'd vote for McCain 10/10 times. I don't really agree with any of their politics, but I trust McCain. Might it be just because of the bravado? Maybe, but I think all the other candidates are crap anyway at least I would like McCain.

I think you are overestimating character. Fine, vote for him because of his character. I'll vote for the person who's ideologies I agree with the most.

Think about this analogy:

You are arrested for murder. Things are looking grim as your fingerprints and blood are all over the murder scene. You have a choice:

The nice guy lawyer who you respect but you don't have any faith in...

or

the blood sucking money grubbing getting it done at any cost lawyer who got a baby rapist off even though there was video and the jury watched it.

Movies will have the nice guy lawyer winning in the end because it makes people happy. It's my life on the line. Give me the guy who will get it done. You aren't voting for your friend. You are voting for someone to run this country.