Old and busted politics thread

by **jeff2sf** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 09:22:01

Reasons to have a new thread:
1. Board Performance, thread was too long.
2. Vox posted more than 2 sentences in politics, he promised not to.
3. You people started a dumb ass SOTU thread with comments less INSIGHTFUL than a game thread for a wednesday night game against the Nats in April.

My political thought for the day... there is no difference in quality of person nor intelligence between rbm-de and eastfallowfield.

Edited for spelling. I'm a bad person, Bucky.

by **jerseyhoya** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 09:25:55

jeff2sf wrote:3. You people started a dumb ass SOTU thread with comments less inciteful than a game thread for a wednesday night game against the Nats in April.

He just kept saying freedom over and over again and the camera kept showing Ted Kennedy because he was sitting next to Barack.

It was inevitable.

by **jeff2sf** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 09:44:23

jerseyhoya wrote:
jeff2sf wrote:3. You people started a dumb ass SOTU thread with comments less inciteful than a game thread for a wednesday night game against the Nats in April.

He just kept saying freedom over and over again and the camera kept showing Ted Kennedy because he was sitting next to Barack.

It was inevitable.

Why did you have to watch tv and sit at the computer or have laptop on your lap to comment inanely with a bunch of strangers? There didn't HAVE to be any comments. But hey, whatever, I'm not getting into a thread on the SOTU thread. I'm just helping the board. I love you Mr and Mrs Vox.

by **jerseyhoya** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 09:50:42

jeff2sf wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
jeff2sf wrote:3. You people started a dumb ass SOTU thread with comments less inciteful than a game thread for a wednesday night game against the Nats in April.

He just kept saying freedom over and over again and the camera kept showing Ted Kennedy because he was sitting next to Barack.

It was inevitable.

Why did you have to watch tv and sit at the computer or have laptop on your lap to comment inanely with a bunch of strangers? There didn't HAVE to be any comments. But hey, whatever, I'm not getting into a thread on the SOTU thread. I'm just helping the board. I love you Mr and Mrs Vox.

Imagine if no one commented about anything. The board would be crazy fast.

My political thought of the morning...McCain is doing well enough in the big states from Super Tuesday that he might be able to absorb a loss to Romney in Florida.

by **Woody** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 09:56:17

Who had less insightful comments last night, us or President Bush?

by **Bucky** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:00:34

jeff2sf wrote:3. You people started a dumb ass SOTU thread with comments less inciteful than a game thread for a wednesday night game against the Nats in April.
.

C'mon people, pay attention....Jeff wants us to bait and maim each other.... :wink:

by **Houshphandzadeh** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:08:18

I thought the SOTU thread was a lot of fun. Maybe I'm approaching this message board thing all wrong.

The photo of Obama with Ted in his ear and watching Hillary out of the corner of his eye was pretty choice.

by **jerseyhoya** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:12:31

Burlington County GOP, one of the few effective Republican machines in NJ, is preparing to shift its support from Giuliani to McCain. With the primary looming next week, expect to see more of this from the GOP party machinery in Jersey. Tom Wilson, the state GOP chair, was an early endorser of McCain even though most of the county party orgs backed Rudy. McCain and Rudy are pretty close in the polls in NJ, but if Rudy loses tonight, and every sign points to that happening, McCain should win Jersey pretty easily even if Rudy doesn't drop out. I think Rudy would drop out though. He should.

Boom goes the insight.

by **jeff2sf** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:17:05

Woody wrote:Who had less insightful comments last night, us or President Bush?

You guys, by a lot, Woody.

You're excused of course due to your nervousness over hearing about your job tomorrow.

OT for this thread: My analysis Woody is that it's a genuine coin flip on whether you get the job or not. Normally it's a TERRIBLE sign that they didn't call you on Monday to say you got the job. It should be obvious most times that the person is or isn't the one. My firm tells people we'll get back within a week but then calls the people we accept when we do our Super Saturdays later that night.

The thing is, they're a touch on the small side and you genuinely are the best candidate for them but they weren't planning on paying you so much, so there's some internal debate where Shannon from Marketing is saying how dynamic and necessary you are to the firm's future while Rick from Accounting is urging the company to be more fiscally responsible.

by **TenuredVulture** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:17:08

jeff2sf wrote:3. You people started a dumb ass SOTU thread with comments less inciteful than a game thread for a wednesday night game against the Nats in April.

It was more like an extra innings west coast game thread, when all the sensible people went to sleep.

by **TenuredVulture** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:19:43

jerseyhoya wrote:Burlington County GOP, one of the few effective Republican machines in NJ, is preparing to shift its support from Giuliani to McCain. With the primary looming next week, expect to see more of this from the GOP party machinery in Jersey. Tom Wilson, the state GOP chair, was an early endorser of McCain even though most of the county party orgs backed Rudy. McCain and Rudy are pretty close in the polls in NJ, but if Rudy loses tonight, and every sign points to that happening, McCain should win Jersey pretty easily even if Rudy doesn't drop out. I think Rudy would drop out though. He should.

Boom goes the insight.

What about Ocean, Somerset and Morris? I'd figure Bergen and Monmouth will be pretty solid for Rudy, but my knowledge of Jersey Republican politics is pretty dated now.

by **jerseyhoya** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:39:05

TenuredVulture wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Burlington County GOP, one of the few effective Republican machines in NJ, is preparing to shift its support from Giuliani to McCain. With the primary looming next week, expect to see more of this from the GOP party machinery in Jersey. Tom Wilson, the state GOP chair, was an early endorser of McCain even though most of the county party orgs backed Rudy. McCain and Rudy are pretty close in the polls in NJ, but if Rudy loses tonight, and every sign points to that happening, McCain should win Jersey pretty easily even if Rudy doesn't drop out. I think Rudy would drop out though. He should.

Boom goes the insight.

What about Ocean, Somerset and Morris? I'd figure Bergen and Monmouth will be pretty solid for Rudy, but my knowledge of Jersey Republican politics is pretty dated now.

Ocean's GOP chairman, George Gilmore, is Rudy's statewide chair. I think Ocean is actually the biggest GOP county in the state these days. It's growing really fast. Morris doesn't really have much of a machine. I guess when you're that conservative of a county, you can trust people to vote Republican all by themselves. Bergen's GOP organization is a shell of its former self. The county has been completely taken over by the Dems thanks to like a decade of infighting among GOPers and the Dem county boss, Joe Ferriero, finding innovative ways even by Jersey standards to raise a boatload of money/be successfully corrupt. I think Somerset is behind Rudy.

In the end, the machines really only make a difference on the margins. If McCain wins tonight or if Rudy finishes a distant third, McCain'll win NJ. It's just interesting to see the shift happening. It's also hard to separate how much is led top down, and how much is a reaction from the bottom moving first.

by **TenuredVulture** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:48:53

jerseyhoya wrote:
TenuredVulture wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Burlington County GOP, one of the few effective Republican machines in NJ, is preparing to shift its support from Giuliani to McCain. With the primary looming next week, expect to see more of this from the GOP party machinery in Jersey. Tom Wilson, the state GOP chair, was an early endorser of McCain even though most of the county party orgs backed Rudy. McCain and Rudy are pretty close in the polls in NJ, but if Rudy loses tonight, and every sign points to that happening, McCain should win Jersey pretty easily even if Rudy doesn't drop out. I think Rudy would drop out though. He should.

Boom goes the insight.

What about Ocean, Somerset and Morris? I'd figure Bergen and Monmouth will be pretty solid for Rudy, but my knowledge of Jersey Republican politics is pretty dated now.

Ocean's GOP chairman, George Gilmore, is Rudy's statewide chair. I think Ocean is actually the biggest GOP county in the state these days. It's growing really fast. Morris doesn't really have much of a machine. I guess when you're that conservative of a county, you can trust people to vote Republican all by themselves. Bergen's GOP organization is a shell of its former self. The county has been completely taken over by the Dems thanks to like a decade of infighting among GOPers and the Dem county boss, Joe Ferriero, finding innovative ways even by Jersey standards to raise a boatload of money/be successfully corrupt. I think Somerset is behind Rudy.

In the end, the machines really only make a difference on the margins. If McCain wins tonight or if Rudy finishes a distant third, McCain'll win NJ. It's just interesting to see the shift happening.

Of course, a meaningful primary in NJ is a new thing, so there's no precedent. The Dems have been historically pretty disciplined, and until the Bobby Franks/Brett Schundler debacle, (Schunder is the NJ equivalent of Mike Huckabee in my opinion) I perceived the Republicans as pretty disciplined too--the party candidate won the primary. Closed primaries helped a lot.

Are there polls? I see Quinnipiac shows McCain basically tied with Rudy. How does Rudy stand a chance without overwhelming victories in FL, NY, NJ, PA, and CT?

by **jerseyhoya** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:37:55

TenuredVulture wrote:Of course, a meaningful primary in NJ is a new thing, so there's no precedent. The Dems have been historically pretty disciplined, and until the Bobby Franks/Brett Schundler debacle, (Schunder is the NJ equivalent of Mike Huckabee in my opinion) I perceived the Republicans as pretty disciplined too--the party candidate won the primary. Closed primaries helped a lot.

Are there polls? I see Quinnipiac shows McCain basically tied with Rudy. How does Rudy stand a chance without overwhelming victories in FL, NY, NJ, PA, and CT?

Franks/Schundler was weird for a ton of reasons. If Franks had been running for more than two months, and hadn't been forced into the race in such awkward circumstances, he would have beaten Schundler no problem. They also ran the worst campaign ever against Bret. Started off attacking him as a Democrat because he volunteered for Gary Hart's campaign in 1984. Obviously, he changed his political stripes (and in a believable fashion) and became a pretty conservative politician. So then they started hitting him as a potential disaster who couldn't win because he was too much of a conservative Republican. It just didn't wash.

Rudy was up about 30% in the polls for a while, and it held pretty steady until he started losing. The latest one I saw had him down a few points within the margin of error. I think if he pulled off a miracle win in Florida tonight, he'd win just with people coming home who originally supported him but started looking for other candidates once his viability fell into question.

Now we have two politics threads. The world is spinning off its axis.

by **dajafi** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:59:50

Unintended consequences... the NY, NJ, and I think other primaries deemed last year to be favorable for 9iu11iani are winner-take-all. Now that could save McCain's bacon even if he loses today, per j-hoya's observation earlier.

Also, I'll use my mod power to lock the previous politics thread. jeff, your service to board functionality has been noted...

by **dajafi** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 13:04:11

Gotta say I don't remember McCain's wife looking so foxy in 2000. Maybe it took Thompson and his trophy lady leaving the scene for Cindy McCain to step forward...

by **TheDude24** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 14:41:19

From the State of the Union:

Our security, our prosperity and our environment all require reducing our dependence on oil. consumption over the next decade, and you responded. Together, we should take the next steps. Let us fund new technologies that can generate coal power while capturing carbon emissions.
Let us increase the use of renewable power and emissions- free nuclear power.
(APPLAUSE)
Let us continue investing in advanced battery technology and renewable fuels to power the cars and trucks of the future.
(APPLAUSE)
Let us create a new international clean technology fund which will help developing nations like India and China make greater use of clean energy sources.
And let us complete an international agreement that has the potential to slow, stop, and eventually reverse the growth of greenhouse gases.
(APPLAUSE)
This agreement will be effective only if it includes commitments by every major economy and gives none a free ride.
The United States is committed to strengthening our energy security and confronting global climate change, and the best way to meet these goals is for America to continue leading the way toward the development of cleaner and more energy-efficient technology.
(APPLAUSE)

So Bush just proposed the Kyoto agreement?
He never sounded as green as he did last night. "Investing in advanced technology"-- soon we'll be driving electric cars and be independent of foreghn oil. Sweet.

by **Bucky** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 14:46:48

Didn't catch it last night, and not sure if it's signifigant anyway...but he mentioned investing in cleaning up coal generation before investing more in renewables.....

by **jerseyhoya** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 14:56:10

Midday Florida rumor post:

Friend of a friend says Romney's up close to double digits in his internal polling.

But...McCain is charging on Intrade, up 8.5 points on the day, while Romney is down 6.2.

/irrelevant speculation

by **drsmooth** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 14:57:49

TheDude24 wrote:So Bush just proposed the Kyoto agreement?
He never sounded as green as he did last night. "Investing in advanced technology"-- soon we'll be driving electric cars and be independent of foreghn oil. Sweet.

Bush has mumbled similar commitment-less generalizations in past years - you just noticed because he said so little about anything besides Iraq all night.

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