this move is fucked up and ruben amaro is going to hell when he dies.

Grotewold wrote:Way to completely dodge the creativity issue you raised

And if you want to take the cheap shot at my pollyanism as it relates to Amaro and the Phils, you've got to take it back to 2005 bub

I'm not dodging it. It was pretty clear I was making fun of them. I was being sarcastic about how Byrd is the opposite of the type of signing they were talking about.

And it's not a cheap shot. I said we were going to suck last year and we did. You said things would go much better than they did and you were wrong. No big deal, but I find it weird that you're making cheap shots about "everything is ruined forever." So I said you were a pollyanna in response to that. I was almost always optimistic before last season, so it's not like I'm someone who is always saying things are ruined. I said they would suck last year and they did. Incredible that you're trying to turn that into some kind of character flaw.

Monkeyboy wrote:

Grotewold wrote:Way to completely dodge the creativity issue you raised

And if you want to take the cheap shot at my pollyanism as it relates to Amaro and the Phils, you've got to take it back to 2005 bub

I'm not dodging it. It was pretty clear I was making fun of them. I was being sarcastic about how Byrd is the opposite of the type of signing they were talking about.

And it's not a cheap shot. I said we were going to suck last year and we did. You said things would go much better than they did and you were wrong. No big deal, but I find it weird that you're making cheap shots about "everything is ruined forever." So I said you were a pollyanna in response to that. I was almost always optimistic before last season, so it's not like I'm someone who is always saying things are ruined. I said they would suck last year and they did. Incredible that you're trying to turn that into some kind of character flaw.

Nothing about this is true or sensible

Agree to disagree

offseason just started, might want to wait to see if something creative happens to satisfy your creativity need. not saying it will or won't.

Picking up Ed Reed would be creative.

Grotewold wrote:

Monkeyboy wrote:

Grotewold wrote:Way to completely dodge the creativity issue you raised

And if you want to take the cheap shot at my pollyanism as it relates to Amaro and the Phils, you've got to take it back to 2005 bub

I'm not dodging it. It was pretty clear I was making fun of them. I was being sarcastic about how Byrd is the opposite of the type of signing they were talking about.

And it's not a cheap shot. I said we were going to suck last year and we did. You said things would go much better than they did and you were wrong. No big deal, but I find it weird that you're making cheap shots about "everything is ruined forever." So I said you were a pollyanna in response to that. I was almost always optimistic before last season, so it's not like I'm someone who is always saying things are ruined. I said they would suck last year and they did. Incredible that you're trying to turn that into some kind of character flaw.

Nothing about this is true or sensible

Agree to disagree

Actually, the first paragraph is 100% true, so I don't know what you are talking about.

And parts of the 2nd paragraph are definitely 100% true. I did say they would suck last year and I was right. It's also true that I've been generally positive about moves until Amaro took over. I've hated some individual moves, but generally thought Gillick was doing a good job. I thought the team would be good (which was a no brainer for sure) and I wasn't negative about their chances. Yes, I've become increasingly negative about Amaro's moves, but I'm hardly alone and it certainly seems to have been justified. It's possible you spent a lot of time saying that their moves were bad last year, but I don't remember it. I just remember you defending the moves, but maybe that part is wrong. If I mischaracterized your opinion from last year, then parts of the 2nd paragraph might be wrong.

Anyway, there are a bunch of people saying almost exactly the same things that I said, minus the creativity part, so it does make sense for you to argue with someone else. You have a lot of people to choose from.

I don't get why you guys are dead focused on the creativity comment. All I said about creativity was this:

well, it certainly is a creative move. Those Picassos in the front office went and painted us a masterpiece of creativity with this one.

sign an aging OFer coming off his best season to a 2-year deal a week into free agency = CREATIVE

It's about the least creative thing they could have done, and I was promised some creativity, dammit.

The last line was one sentence in a separate post.

I thought it was pretty clear I was making fun of the front office/amaro, making fun that they would see this move as creative. Maybe it's not obvious to others, but it seems obvious to me. I followed up this post with a post about Byrd's rack, so that was my mindset

Curious as to who you liked better on the FA OF market since you are not satisfied with the haste of the signing.

I don't know what players teams are making available. It may depend on who is signed by other teams. If I gave ideas, people would just say that I don't know if they're available, so better not to go down that road. It's a trap and there are too many possible combinations when I have very little access to what is going on.

It's not like I think Byrd is terrible or that he may not earn his money (I've said this several times, but I think it may have gotten lost). I just think they narrowed their options much sooner than was needed. It's a degrees of freedom thing. It's seems like a plurality of the board agrees. Ask them what they think. I'd rather not have my words misconstrued by someone when it's apparent I'm terrible at communicating in this forum.

I don't believe signing Byrd means they can't also trade for someone.

Of course it doesn't. One of the positions where we could upgrade is now filled. With Marlon Byrd. He's not going to make much difference, most likely.

So what happens if an opportunity opens up for a RFer that could make a big difference? Do we make Byrd a 4th OFer at 8 million a year? Do we try to put him in CF and hope he still has enough legs for the position? See what I mean?

You see the same reports I do. Assuming the reports are true, other GMs are wondering why the move was made. Most of the board seems to agree. I'm not alone here.

What makes you think it's a good move?

I just don't get the "i thought they were gonna suck and I was right!" Pov. I mean, I'm sure even the most optimistic fan (grote) looks at this team and thinks best case scenario is we win the nl east and maybe get hot, no one is looking at Marlon Byrd and saying WORLD SERIES OR BUST FUCKERZZ. As a fan, I am not thrilled with the Byrd signing, or Delmon, MY10 etc. last year and I want amaro gone as much as anyone here, but isn't this supposed to be fun? I mean, I know at best Byrd barely moves the needle, but I'm hoping he can be at least half as valuable as he was and they can make a run. With amaro at the helm, there is no turning this ship around this offseason, I don't see him doing what's necessary to turn the roster over quickly. So if you wanna bitch and moan about how awful each and every signing and trade is, then so be it, over here I'll just be glad we aren't paying Nelson Cruz $15mil/yr into his late 30s and call it a day.

Bill McNeal wrote:I just don't get the "i thought they were gonna suck and I was right!" Pov. I mean, I'm sure even the most optimistic fan (grote) looks at this team and thinks best case scenario is we win the nl east and maybe get hot, no one is looking at Marlon Byrd and saying WORLD SERIES OR BUST FUCKERZZ. As a fan, I am not thrilled with the Byrd signing, or Delmon, MY10 etc. last year and I want amaro gone as much as anyone here, but isn't this supposed to be fun? I mean, I know at best Byrd barely moves the needle, but I'm hoping he can be at least half as valuable as he was and they can make a run. With amaro at the helm, there is no turning this ship around this offseason, I don't see him doing what's necessary to turn the roster over quickly. So if you wanna bitch and moan about how awful each and every signing and trade is, then so be it, over here I'll just be glad we aren't paying Nelson Cruz $15mil/yr into his late 30s and call it a day.

I was responding to Grote implying that I was acting all "everything is ruined forever." That's the only reason I said that. If I was negative about the signing and it turned out well, then I think it would be fair to say I was being too negative. But if I'm negative and it turns out I was right, then I think saying I was too negative doesn't make much sense.

And I don't have a problem at all with people being overly positive. Heck, I manage to talk myself into the idea that we'll win every year, even when it's pretty obvious we won't. That's part of being a fan. But whining about bad moves is also part of being a fan. It's the agony and the ecstasy.

Anyway, I don't think I was doing anything different than what about 10 other posters were doing. If that's bitching and moaning, then I guess I was bitching and moaning. If you look at my posts though, I don't think that's what I was doing, at least not before I had to defend my opinion. Before that, I was just joking around and having a laugh (at amaro's expense, of course). And I'm also glad we're paying Byrd instead of Cruz (though I used to kinda like Cruz). I tried to point out that I don't hate the money given Byrd, it's more the timing and, to a lesser degree, the second year.

Oh, and I don't hate every trade or signing. That's just not true at all.

Bill McNeal wrote:I just don't get the "i thought they were gonna suck and I was right!" Pov. I mean, I'm sure even the most optimistic fan (grote) looks at this team and thinks best case scenario is we win the nl east and maybe get hot, no one is looking at Marlon Byrd and saying WORLD SERIES OR BUST FUCKERZZ. As a fan, I am not thrilled with the Byrd signing, or Delmon, MY10 etc. last year and I want amaro gone as much as anyone here, but isn't this supposed to be fun? I mean, I know at best Byrd barely moves the needle, but I'm hoping he can be at least half as valuable as he was and they can make a run. With amaro at the helm, there is no turning this ship around this offseason, I don't see him doing what's necessary to turn the roster over quickly. So if you wanna bitch and moan about how awful each and every signing and trade is, then so be it, over here I'll just be glad we aren't paying Nelson Cruz $15mil/yr into his late 30s and call it a day.

Fuck You Bill McNeal, you prick.




just kidding

im optimistic about this signing and you be should too

Monkeyboy wrote:What makes you think it's a good move?

i think it's a fair price for a needed piece (rhh with some pop) that doesn't limit any of their other moves. i agree the move is a little early, but i don't think it's an overpay or that amaro set the top of the market, which makes the timing less concerning imo. if they felt like it they could go get matt joyce to platoon with him and get real great production (byrd 165 wRC+/joyce 123) for a reasonable cost. plenty of options yet.

Matt Gelb ‏@magelb
Marlon Byrd’s deal includes a club/vesting option for 2016.

You don't need to strictly platoon Byrd. He hits righties OK. At least he does in the seasons he isn't sucking. I wouldn't mind them giving him plenty of days off though as he is old.

jerseyhoya wrote:Matt Gelb ‏@magelb
Marlon Byrd’s deal includes a club/vesting option for 2016.

Well, duh, of course it does.

I don't hate this as much as acquiring Michael Young or Delmon Young or John Lannan or most of Dipshit's other moves. Closest parallel is probably Ibanez' signing.

I'm so apathetic at this point that I need to fake most of my angst.