Bucky wrote:Apparently Cole has taken the mound 60+ consecutive innings without having a lead.

CALLING JAYSON STARK

49 days per Gelb. Not sure how many innings that equates too...

Sadly I agree with Cooney on everything, with the exception of Utley and/or Lee possibly also making the all-star team.

I would look to move Lee, Pap, Rollins and Adams. I'd send as much as $18m with Lee and maybe $6m with Pap if it means getting back better prospects. The money is their only remaining competitive advantage, so they should use it. Ideally the total return is something like a top 50 guy, a top 100 guy, a usable young MLBer or two and two more guys who'd be in the Phillies' top 20.

Galvis plays short, Bastardo or JDF closes, Martin takes Lee's rotation spot. They win 70 games rather than 80, draft higher next year and hopefully are ready to contend again by 2016 or 2017, as the Nats and Braves get old.

I don't want to watch yesterday's lineup for the next 2 years. I'd rather they stick with Utley/Lee and at least be able to delude myself into thinking they can compete while they hover around .500 and hope some of our current prospects pan out. And trading for prospects usually doesn't work out anyway like with the 3 Lee trades.

Its really not that doom and gloom people. If they sell at the deadline they can sure up their farm system pretty quickly especially when you add in actually having a decent draft pick this year. Then also have a ton of money coming off the books with Halladay, Chooch, Utley, the youngs, Nix gone. And if they deal Papelbon, Rollins, Adams or Lee that is even more. This won't take years to fix like some are suggesting.

There are two ways of doing things, and both have some merit. Option 1 is the partial rebuild, which involves selling off veterans with money in an attempt to get some payroll flexibility, and to rebuild a barren farm system. Option 2 is the complete rebuild, which is salary dumping.

The only way option 2 makes sense is if you can somehow handcuff Howard to Lee, which is difficult, but not impossible. I cannot see the club moving in that direction though with the TV deal approaching, which actually worries me about what Ruben will do.

Wheels Tupay wrote:Its really not that doom and gloom people. If they sell at the deadline they can sure up their farm system pretty quickly especially when you add in actually having a decent draft pick this year. Then also have a ton of money coming off the books with Halladay, Chooch, Utley, the youngs, Nix gone. And if they deal Papelbon, Rollins, Adams or Lee that is even more. This won't take years to fix like some are suggesting.

A draft pick will only help years from now, if at all.

ek wrote:except look who is going to fix it

And not to be Peter Pessimist over here, but if we have 60 mil to spend on FAs next season (just picking a number out of thin air really), who are you gonna give it to? There is not much to get excited about on this list

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/02/2 ... gents.html

Most everyone is on the wrong side of 30 and there are A LOT on the wrong side of 35. In fact Delmon is the only position player that has a good shot to be a FA who is under 30. Alexi Casilla has an option for next year.

Yup. Teams are locking up their good young or youngish players nowadays. All that's left is to spend a lot of dough on guys who are already declining. I guess they can trade for another team's big contract. Or maybe get a real good commie defector if there are any left.

usctrojans31 wrote:There are two ways of doing things, and both have some merit. Option 1 is the partial rebuild, which involves selling off veterans with money in an attempt to get some payroll flexibility, and to rebuild a barren farm system. Option 2 is the complete rebuild, which is salary dumping.

The only way option 2 makes sense is if you can somehow handcuff Howard to Lee, which is difficult, but not impossible. I cannot see the club moving in that direction though with the TV deal approaching, which actually worries me about what Ruben will do.

The only way that salary dumping makes sense (in a good way from the standpoint of future baseball success) is if the money you save can be used to acquire better talent than what you gave up. With the price of FA under the current system and the lack of productivity of so many FA, this is an outcome which could, but is highly unlikely, to occur. Will we use the money saved to get better pitchers than Pap and Lee (or a stud position player) or will we get over-priced dreck? The main reason for salary dumps is to balance the budget at a time of declining revenue. Certainly you trade guys who will bring something in return and won't contribute to future winners, if the Phillies are out of contention. The list of such guys likely does not include Lee.

Looking at that play at home plate yesterday and boy, it looked like Quintero totally didn't know the situation. That's unacceptable. MY then made matters worse when he threw the ball into the ground.

But Dave Valle just made a good point on MLB Tonight just now...if Quintero plays home plate there like a first baseman, chances are that the ball never hits the ground.

It's just another reminder that we have a lot of dumb baseball players on this team.

The Phillies are better than league average in fewest errors; most double plays turned and defensive efficiency. Hard to believe, Harry.

78 wins if they don't trade Lee and Papelbon and Utley.

71 if they do.

Doll Is Mine wrote:Looking at that play at home plate yesterday and boy, it looked like Quintero totally didn't know the situation. That's unacceptable. MY then made matters worse when he threw the ball into the ground.

But Dave Valle just made a good point on MLB Tonight just now...if Quintero plays home plate there like a first baseman, chances are that the ball never hits the ground.

It's just another reminder that we have a lot of dumb baseball players on this team.

Without seeing it since yesterday I thought it looked like he was sliding out to give Young an angle but the throw was so bad it made Quintero look like an idiot.

right, he can't *really* play it like a first baseman because he's got to keep his glove foot on the plate, not the opposite foot like a normal first baseman play, in order give young something to throw at.

Has anyone come up with a name yet for the title of the 2013 Year in Review Phillies DVD?

Should be a classic...

Après nous, le déluge.

threecount wrote:Has anyone come up with a name yet for the title of the 2013 Year in Review Phillies DVD?

Should be a classic...

Farts in a Bottle

The Nightman Cometh wrote:

Wheels Tupay wrote:Its really not that doom and gloom people. If they sell at the deadline they can sure up their farm system pretty quickly especially when you add in actually having a decent draft pick this year. Then also have a ton of money coming off the books with Halladay, Chooch, Utley, the youngs, Nix gone. And if they deal Papelbon, Rollins, Adams or Lee that is even more. This won't take years to fix like some are suggesting.

A draft pick will only help years from now, if at all.

if you keep him yes but you could deal him and that could bring you value quicker

threecount wrote:Has anyone come up with a name yet for the title of the 2013 Year in Review Phillies DVD?

Should be a classic...

2013: Bye Charlie!

2013: You really spent money to relive this year?