Monkeyboy wrote:No, I would have but thanks for telling me what I would do. Your arrogance is, shall we say, breathtaking. I also like how you've ignored me saying in several instances how Amaro isn't a bad GM when it comes to most things, but that he has a blind spot when it comes to offensive production. I guess it's easier to act like a non-mod and insult someone if you make up their position and tell them what they think. I do grasp that the best team doesn't always win the playoffs which is why I said all along (go ahead and check) that it makes no sense to send the farm for an aging pitcher (oswalt in this case) that will only give you a very marginally greater chance of winning because of the luck involved in winning. Do you grasp that?
Sorry for poopooing your genius, Ruben. Please make no offseason moves. Let someone else do it. Thanks.
It's great to have such a farm system to pull stuff like this off.
Phils are also benefitting from teams really having to worry about payroll when the Phils can push 150 million. A few years ago, it would have taken more for these starters, but teams are really wanting young cheap players to deal with the crappy economy. The big guns are coming cheap. Good for us.
JFLNYC wrote:Yes, Polanco sucked last year. In the last year of his contract. That's my point.
Ibanez not signing for less than 3 years is an urban legend, repeated so often it's now taken as truth.
In the 3 years of his contract, Blanton had an ERA+ of 85, 77 and 88 -- hardly worth making a 3-year commitment and, again, the opportunity cost of that "cost certainty" was having to trade Cliff Lee and, possibly, not being able to afford a replacement bat (Lance Berkman anyone?) for Werth in 2011 because they were stuck with Blanton's contract.
Yes, yes, yes, of course Rube's done good things and of course every GM makes mistakes. But, jeez, those facts don't give Rube some sort of cloak of immunity about mistakes he's made. And, I'm sorry, but Ryan Franklin at $3.25MM is just not in the same ballpark as Rube's deals at 10 times that much.
But while we're on the subject of the Cardinals, let's review some of their significant signings the last few years. In 2011, Lance Berkman for 1/8. Last year, Beltran for 2/26 and Furcal for 2/14. Let's also not forget getting Lohse for next-to-nothing after the Phils didn't re-sign him. Seeing a pattern here and a difference from the Phils? Not giving that extra year and money. So, the mistakes, when they happen, don't hurt as much and the Cards don't pay those opportunity costs that have been a hallmark of Rube's tenure.
JFLNYC wrote:Yes, Polanco sucked last year. In the last year of his contract. That's my point.
Ibanez not signing for less than 3 years is an urban legend, repeated so often it's now taken as truth.
In the 3 years of his contract, Blanton had an ERA+ of 85, 77 and 88 -- hardly worth making a 3-year commitment and, again, the opportunity cost of that "cost certainty" was having to trade Cliff Lee and, possibly, not being able to afford a replacement bat (Lance Berkman anyone?) for Werth in 2011 because they were stuck with Blanton's contract.
Yes, yes, yes, of course Rube's done good things and of course every GM makes mistakes. But, jeez, those facts don't give Rube some sort of cloak of immunity about mistakes he's made. And, I'm sorry, but Ryan Franklin at $3.25MM is just not in the same ballpark as Rube's deals at 10 times that much.
But while we're on the subject of the Cardinals, let's review some of their significant signings the last few years. In 2011, Lance Berkman for 1/8. Last year, Beltran for 2/26 and Furcal for 2/14. Let's also not forget getting Lohse for next-to-nothing after the Phils didn't re-sign him. Seeing a pattern here and a difference from the Phils? Not giving that extra year and money. So, the mistakes, when they happen, don't hurt as much and the Cards don't pay those opportunity costs that have been a hallmark of Rube's tenure.
etched Chaos wrote:usctrojans31 wrote:I wish the White Sox were a better team and competitng this year. We probably could have dumped Howard on them for Dunn, who while having another atrocious year, is at least a free agent after 2014.
The Adam Dunn who currently isn't even opsing over .600? Who is making the mendoza line look good?
usctrojans31 wrote:etched Chaos wrote:usctrojans31 wrote:I wish the White Sox were a better team and competitng this year. We probably could have dumped Howard on them for Dunn, who while having another atrocious year, is at least a free agent after 2014.
The Adam Dunn who currently isn't even opsing over .600? Who is making the mendoza line look good?
The same Adam Dunn who is a free agent after next season? Even if he continues his abysmal season, there is still a $75 M cost savings between him and Howard. Worst case scenario, you have a $30 M bench man and start Darin Ruf.
Barry Jive wrote:Ricky Bottalico was the Phillies' all-star in 1996. If you supposedly found something fun about that team you can sure as shit find something about this one
etched Chaos wrote:Or you keep Ryan Howard and actually have someone who can still hit on your ball-club instead of replacing him with a sub 200 hitter to dump payroll. If we're going to dump payroll we might as well dump Howard for nothing, Adam Dunn is a waste of space right now.
JFLNYC wrote:And, mccare, I likewise respect your point that there's "no way of proving that those guys would have signed here at all if not for that extra year," which is absolutely true. But the conclusion I draw from that fact may be different from yours: If Raul Ibanez or Polanco or Moyer or Blanton or even Rollins won't sign without the extra year, I wish them good luck and godspeed. If you need to go the extra year for an elite player like Lee or Halladay or Hamels, I'm all in. They're difference-makers. But for the non-elite guys I mentioned (at this point in his career, Rollins is borderline, at best), if they insist on an extra year, I walk away and keep my powder dry so as not to miss better opportunities.
usctrojans31 wrote:etched Chaos wrote:Or you keep Ryan Howard and actually have someone who can still hit on your ball-club instead of replacing him with a sub 200 hitter to dump payroll. If we're going to dump payroll we might as well dump Howard for nothing, Adam Dunn is a waste of space right now.
How much money do you really want to eat? No one is taking on that contract without the Phillies eating at least half of it, and even that likely won't get it done. If you rule out last season as a do-over, he's still putting up a sub 2 WAR. Adam Dunn is awful, but his awfulness is much easier to swallow. Hell, you could bloody DFA him and STILL save money.
JFLNYC wrote:dajafi, I respect your opinions highly, so I'm not going to continue the argument. But I will say, as an example to illustrate my overall point, I'd rather have Galvis at short this year and Cuddyer in RF, with one more year left on his deal than Rollins at short with 2 more years left on his deal, Delmon in RF and Galvis on the bench. Given the team's need for a RH power bat, a shorter commitment and the skills of Glavis, IMO it's a better -- and shorter -- allocation of resources.
And, mccare, I likewise respect your point that there's "no way of proving that those guys would have signed here at all if not for that extra year," which is absolutely true. But the conclusion I draw from that fact may be different from yours: If Raul Ibanez or Polanco or Moyer or Blanton or even Rollins won't sign without the extra year, I wish them good luck and godspeed. If you need to go the extra year for an elite player like Lee or Halladay or Hamels, I'm all in. They're difference-makers. But for the non-elite guys I mentioned (at this point in his career, Rollins is borderline, at best), if they insist on an extra year, I walk away and keep my powder dry so as not to miss better opportunities.
daj, I do have to mention one more thing: I don't think I put words in your mouth to make my argument and I'd appreciate your not putting words in mine. I never said Furcal's deal was a "smart move." But I will say this -- and Galvis is the key: I'd have rather signed Furcal to a 2/14 deal, knowing I have Galvis, than Rollins to a 4/44 deal, even knowing Furcal's injury history. Again, shorter commitment, different allocation of resources and my powder is dry.
dajafi wrote:But I also don't think there's a single GM who would have done things very differently, at least enough to overcome the aging of the core.
Bob Loblaw wrote:We apparently signed Carlos Zambrano.
http://www.philliedelphia.com/2013/05/s ... llies.html
Ruben Amaro has denied a report that the Phillies have signed Carlos Zambrano, calling it "ridiculously premature"