Wheels Tupay wrote:So we lost 14-2 twice in about a week span. Impressive.

And shut out 2 times between those 12 run loses

Halladay's worst luck is the only team he could beat is the team he is on.

Trent Steele wrote:I can't prove it, but both Halladay and Amaro are full of #$!&@. It's been his shoulder all along not the absurd, #$!&@ excuses for the last 9 months. They both knew it.

Dead on.

Well, we're fucked for this year with no Halladay. Trade Chooch, Mike Young, Adams if there will be takers, Papelbon if there will be takers

Would try to sign Utley first and if he won't sign for short term deal, trade him

Trent Steele wrote:I can't prove it, but both Halladay and Amaro are full of shit. It's been his shoulder all along not the absurd, bullshit excuses for the last 9 months. They both knew it.

I feel like if they knew his shoulder was fucked, they would've been more aggressive in getting another starter rather than moving Worley and stopgapping with Lannan. You could be right.

I could definitely buy that they've known since March though.

joe table wrote:Well, we're fucked for this year with no Halladay. Trade Chooch, Mike Young, Adams if there will be takers, Papelbon if there will be takers

Would try to sign Utley first and if he won't sign for short term deal, trade him

With Halladay presumably finished, this is a bad team. -34 run differential against mostly bad teams. Some kind of combination of Pettibone/Cloyd/Lannan garbage starting 40% of the games. Dreadful bullpen work for the 6th and 7th innings, which becomes increasingly more important with those guys starting. Terrible defense in all corners. A team that gets shut out every 5th game or so (.298 team wOBA).

I guess it's possible that they could fluke into 88 wins or something, but I don't see it. I don't know what more evidence you need to see that it only gets worse from here. 2014 isn't going to better by adding crap parts like they did this year.

Tear it down? I guess. But, in my opinion, Amaro is a joke. I've seen nothing to suggest that he could rebuild an organization, and that's exactly what he needs to do.

I'm basically despondent.

FTN wrote:fwiw, i hope they bring up adam morgan. you may as well let him learn at this level so we can see if hes ready to hold down a spot next year. cloyd is garbage

At least Cloyd is garbage already on the 40 man roster. This season is already over, so I'd prefer to wait a month and keep Morgan's service time down.

Trent Steele wrote:

joe table wrote:Well, we're #$!&@ for this year with no Halladay. Trade Chooch, Mike Young, Adams if there will be takers, Papelbon if there will be takers

Would try to sign Utley first and if he won't sign for short term deal, trade him

With Halladay presumably finished, this is a bad team. -34 run differential against mostly bad teams. Some kind of combination of Pettibone/Cloyd/Lannan garbage starting 40% of the games. Dreadful bullpen work for the 6th and 7th innings, which becomes increasingly more important with those guys starting. Terrible defense in all corners. A team that gets shut out every 5th game or so (.298 team wOBA).

I guess it's possible that they could fluke into 88 wins or something, but I don't see it. I don't know what more evidence you need to see that it only gets worse from here. 2014 isn't going to better by adding crap parts like they did this year.

Tear it down? I guess. But, in my opinion, Amaro is a joke. I've seen nothing to suggest that he could rebuild an organization, and that's exactly what he needs to do.

I'm basically despondent.

I agree that this club is bad, but I don't see it as a complete write-off with the right moves. That said, like you, I don't trust Lord Smug to rebuild anything except his ego. If I'm Amaro, I'm calling the Dodgers tomorrow and trying to work out something so that Cliff can just be left in California.

I'd also rather wait on Morgan. Let him dominate at AAA for awhile before putting him on he 40-man.

fwiw, we're already past the point where morgan's FA will be bumped back a year. he could still be a super 2, but who gives a shit.

he'll learn a lot more in the majors than he will in AAA. seeing if he will be ready in 2014 will be big in terms of how they approach the offseason

Adam Morgan isn't a good enough prospect to worry about what happens 6 years from now - bring him up and let's see.

Tear it down, just like I said. Where are all the rose-colored glasses wearers now?

Yeah, I'm pretty damn depressed about this team. They're old and expensive, there isn't much talent on the way, and I'm not sure they even really grasp that there's a problem.

I hope you guys are right that Amaro will be gone sooner than later. But I don't see it. Probably after 2015, maybe a year sooner if the bottom really falls out. But that's no fun to root for either.

They damn well better draft well these next two years.

While they have a -34 run differential, their run differential is -31 in the games Halladay started.

dajafi wrote:They're old and expensive, there isn't much talent on the way

its pretty amazing how long the farm system has gone without producing a legitimate everyday player for any team. Who is the last..Bourn?

Polar Bear Phan wrote:While they have a -34 run differential, their run differential is -31 in the games Halladay started.

gonna use that. wow

As much heat as Amaro gets for his free agent signings, the draft and development of players is by far the biggest shortcoming of the franchise.

Players the Phils drafted who have 6 or fewer years of service time and are on the team currently:
Domonic Brown
Kyle Kendrick
Pettibone
Savery

Meanwhile the Cardinals have:
Shelby Miller
Matt Adams
Trevor Rosenthal
Pete Kozma
Matt Carpenter
Lance Lynn
Jon Jay
Mitchell Boggs
Jason Motte
Jaime Garcia
Allen Craig
plus a few other lesser players

edit: and Kendrick is actually at 7 years

kendrick, lannan, pettibone = 9-3
hamels, halladay, lee = 5-15

I'm about one rung above you on the ladder of desperation. I'll give Amaro the rest of this season to unscrew the mess he made and if he screws the pooch whilst doing so, I'll be right there with you.

Trent Steele wrote:

joe table wrote:Well, we're #$!&@ for this year with no Halladay. Trade Chooch, Mike Young, Adams if there will be takers, Papelbon if there will be takers

Would try to sign Utley first and if he won't sign for short term deal, trade him

With Halladay presumably finished, this is a bad team. -34 run differential against mostly bad teams. Some kind of combination of Pettibone/Cloyd/Lannan garbage starting 40% of the games. Dreadful bullpen work for the 6th and 7th innings, which becomes increasingly more important with those guys starting. Terrible defense in all corners. A team that gets shut out every 5th game or so (.298 team wOBA).

I guess it's possible that they could fluke into 88 wins or something, but I don't see it. I don't know what more evidence you need to see that it only gets worse from here. 2014 isn't going to better by adding crap parts like they did this year.

Tear it down? I guess. But, in my opinion, Amaro is a joke. I've seen nothing to suggest that he could rebuild an organization, and that's exactly what he needs to do.

I'm basically despondent.

Bleh, the biggest problem with Amaro is that it cost us Arbuckle. How are the Royals doing with drafting and developing?

LOL Trollney starting Utley to Royals or Orioles chatter

usctrojans31 wrote:Bleh, the biggest problem with Amaro is that it cost us Arbuckle. How are the Royals doing with drafting and developing?

they've fucked up a lot of their early/expensive picks in the last 3-4 years