I still think the Rangers are trying to get CLIFF LEE thru AZ.

We get Upton
TX gets Lee
AZ gets prospects(from TX)

Yeah, why trade Lee for Upton when we could have saved our franchise by giving him to LA. We'd look stupid now.

It’s hard to overstate just how bad Michael Young — who also now plies his trade in Philly — was last year. To find a player who racked up at least 600 plate appearances in a season and accumulated a worse WAR than Young’s -1.4 mark from 2012, you have to go back to Marquis Grissom in 2000. In fact, since the World Series era began in 1903, there have been 6,009 position-player seasons that met that same 600 PA threshold, and only 12 of them posted a worse WAR than did Young last season. Young is literally in the running for the worst position-player season of all-time. He was terrible at the plate, in the field and on the bases. Just getting rid of him was worth at least a win for the Rangers. That they’re going to replace him with functional baseball players makes it all the better.

farngarphs

better than anyone the phillies had last year

Ace Rothstein wrote:better than anyone the phillies had last year

Well, Frandsen was clearly better in his 200 ABs despite the seven errors. Not saying he'll be better this year.

Trent Steele wrote:

It’s hard to overstate just how bad Michael Young — who also now plies his trade in Philly — was last year. To find a player who racked up at least 600 plate appearances in a season and accumulated a worse WAR than Young’s -1.4 mark from 2012, you have to go back to Marquis Grissom in 2000. In fact, since the World Series era began in 1903, there have been 6,009 position-player seasons that met that same 600 PA threshold, and only 12 of them posted a worse WAR than did Young last season. Young is literally in the running for the worst position-player season of all-time. He was terrible at the plate, in the field and on the bases. Just getting rid of him was worth at least a win for the Rangers. That they’re going to replace him with functional baseball players makes it all the better.

farngarphs

buying low, baby!

Trent Steele wrote:

It’s hard to overstate just how bad Michael Young — who also now plies his trade in Philly — was last year. To find a player who racked up at least 600 plate appearances in a season and accumulated a worse WAR than Young’s -1.4 mark from 2012, you have to go back to Marquis Grissom in 2000. In fact, since the World Series era began in 1903, there have been 6,009 position-player seasons that met that same 600 PA threshold, and only 12 of them posted a worse WAR than did Young last season. Young is literally in the running for the worst position-player season of all-time. He was terrible at the plate, in the field and on the bases. Just getting rid of him was worth at least a win for the Rangers. That they’re going to replace him with functional baseball players makes it all the better.

farngarphs

Well, good thing they play a new season next year instead of replicating last year's stats.

that's some good vitriol for January

We could use Grissom right now too, now that they mention it

Ryan Howard and Roy Halladay the only competition for Young winning Comeback Player of the Year.

Rockinghorse wrote:We could use Grissom right now too, now that they mention it

bring in him and Raul Mondesi. the Knicks brought in decrepit old guys and look at them!

Barry Jive wrote:that's some good vitriol for January

Seriously

allentown wrote: Beware of hitters or pitchers whose success is largely a function of their home ballpark. They are always over-priced.

"always" is an overstatement. see holliday, matt.

dajafi wrote:Brown, Galvis, Biddle and Joseph is a lot of near-ready talent. I'd make that deal for Stanton; though then again I'd probably give the ten best guys in our system for Stanton.

Upton? I'd hold out for what azrider says they're offering now. I wonder if they would take Galvis and Valle for Kubel and some cash or a fringe arm.

even getting upton for this rumored dbacks counteroffer would be better than i had hoped.
obviously, i would try to keep biddle (aumont and wright instead?). and i would see if there was a way to hang on to brown as well (ruf and he-who-must-not-be-named instead?).
but even a rumor of a trade like this being possible has me more optimistic than i've been all winter.

anyone who knows me knows that i'm really, really big on the value of having players in their prime. for me, that easily trumps home/road split concerns when it concerns a guy who had a (park-adjusted !!!) ops+ of 129 at age 21, and 141 at age 23, and whose 2012 numbers were suppressed by a known spring injury from which he seemed to have recovered by season's end. the last guy i wanted badly in trade before his age 25 season, based on a great start to his career also was dismissed by many because of several disappointing years plagued by injury and rumors of an attitude problem. adrian beltre averaged 5.7 war the next three seasons.

upton was better at age 24 and much better when younger than any of (picking 3 pretty successful rightfielders) rowand, rios, or swisher. they averaged 3.6 war in their age 25-27 seasons. upton's top-10 b-r comps averaged 3.8 war at those ages.

brown has not yet posted a positive win value. there is still time and i would like to see him get another shot with the phils, but he's starting to look like a milledge/patternson bust.

phorever wrote:

allentown wrote: Beware of hitters or pitchers whose success is largely a function of their home ballpark. They are always over-priced.

"always" is an overstatement. see holliday, matt.

I agree with you but still. . . The premise is a good one. Hitters from hitters parks and pitchers from pitchers parks. Good to be a bit cautious. Upton has some other red flags. But you and others have pointed out the huge upside. -- that is, he's still pretty young and he's already established himself as at least a good player.

I'd love to see an Upton, Revere, Domonic outfield next year if they can pull it off.

smitty wrote:
I'd love to see an Upton, Revere, Domonic outfield next year if they can pull it off.

The reality increases daily of a Phillies outfield hodgepodge formed by Ben Revere, Domonic Brown, John Mayberry Jr., Darin Ruf and Laynce Nix. The man tasked with forming the 2013 roster was willing to admit as much Monday. - Philly.com

I think we would all prefer your scenario to the forecasted outfield.

Where's So Taguchi when you need him?

sounds like they will add a vet OF but it may not be a star. they mentioned hairston, wells, cuddyer and soriano

that conflicts a little with the report by gelb earlier where amaro said they are likely done.

Looks like Hairston is staying in NY. Deciding between the Mets & Yankees

i've been looking at the pitchers being mentioned as part of possible mariners or braves packages for upton, along with the minor league depth charts for the rangers and orioles. it looks to me like the phils can match or beat any pitching packages those teams offer, and still keep a number of solid prospects. trade one of cloyd/pettibone. one of biddle/wright/morgan. and one each of their youngish lefty and righty relievers that have been bouncing around between aaa and the majors. since zona already got the shortstop they wanted, it just comes down to how much they dislike upton, want pitching, and want to add depth at other positions. or, put another way, what do the dbacks want more: upton, olt, or phillies pitching prospects? and, of course, do the phillies want upton more than they want to keep hold of their money and prospects? i think that both the dbacks and phillies should value upton the most, so i'm mostly hoping zona screws up in choosing phillies pitching prospects over upton and olt.