Intriguing re: Crisp.

Pretty cheap contract. That'd be a dynamite defensive outfield if nothing else. I worry about Werth's health. Hopefully that wrist problem was a one-time thing.

I recall rumors of Gillick being interested in Crisp in last offseason or the one before that.

How good is Crisp defensively? Looking at his defene statistically, he doesn't look all that good. He was 17th in MLB last season in Dewan's +/- with a -2. He was 5th of 10 AL CFers in RZR; 9th in OOZ; 9th of 9 in Range Factor; 9th of 9 in Zone Rznge and had a FRAA of -1.

It seems, from looking at his defensive numbers, he had a very good year in 2007 but wasn't all that good in 2006. Defensive stats are hard to evaluate. Maybe he is better than his stats indicate. His 2007 numbers are very, very good.

Most players' peak years are 26-28. Crisp's OPS + during those years were 77, 83 and 93. He may have had an early peak as he hit really well at age 24 and 25 -- OPS + of 110 and 117.

Crisp is probably a very fine 4th outfielder. Getting him for Ruiz is probably a good deal if the Phils could make that happen. But I wouldn't move Victorino out of CF for Crisp as Victorino is probably better in the field and is a better hitter. I'd like to see the Phils get a good hitter for their corner OF positions and leave Victorino in CF, where his value is much greater.

Denver Post

O'Dowd is looking for the best deal, not the best pitchers, with multiple opposing executives predicting that Philadelphia and Oakland are the most likely trade partners.

"There is not much pitching in the market available. Period," O'Dowd said. "And any pitching we get will likely be projection pitching. Not that guy that has been there, done it. We are completely open-minded to anything."

O'Dowd has been laying the groundwork for weeks regarding Holliday, trying to sift through the best fits. O'Dowd held extensive talks with Philadelphia in July regarding Holliday and Brian Fuentes, asking for Triple-A pitching prospect Carlos Carrasco and big-league starter J.A. Happ. In the playoffs, multiple Phillies players were convinced the team would make another serious run at Holliday if left fielder Pat Burrell wasn't re-signed.

If we can somehow keep our current core intact for the next years AND add Holliday, yes please, yeah, let's get it.

Career 1.068 OPS for Holliday at Coors. I imagine he would do similar damage at CBP.

If we don't have to trade Victorino, you have to explore it. However, I don't think they're going to do it just because it would be a short-term thing. Had we not won this year, this is a move that a team trying to win a championship makes. Sure, I'd love to win a championship every year and that should be the goal every year, but I don't think they're going to trade a bunch of prospects for a one-year rental.

They can't trade Victorino or Werth for Holliday. That just fills one hole in the OF while creating another.

I can't imagine it being just Carrasco and Happ either. What do the Phillies really have to trade if they don't want to give up major pieces that create holes? Carrasco, Happ, Donald, maybe Ruiz or Marson (but it sounds like Amaro loves Marson), Golson maybe. That's about it. I don't know if all of those players together would get Holliday from the Rockies.

I also don't think I'd trade all of those players for Holliday and his really low non-Coors OPS.

Wow. Holliday is only 29 next year and he has been getting better as he ages. He hit for an .892 OPS away from Coors last season. His defense according to Dewan's +/- has been - 12 (32nd in MLB); +4 (13th); and +11 (5th) over the last three years. He stole 28 bases with only 2 caught stealing last season. What's not to like? If they could open next year with an OF of Holliday; Victorinlo and Werth that would be pretty sweet I'd think.

Maybe the other shoe to drop would be trading Howard?

Not that I wouldn't prefer

Rollins
Werth
Utley
Holliday
Howard
Victorino
Feliz
Ruiz/Marson

Grotewold wrote:Maybe the other shoe to drop would be trading Howard?

I almost feel like it'd have to be, but who knows

If we didn't trade for Holliday and the A's did, I think that would be pretty funny. Even if Holliday is improving on the road, Oakland's field wouldn't be very kind to him.

if they wan't projectable pitching for Holliday

what kinda package would it take to get it done

Would it take anything more than let's say Carrasco, Savery and Happ?

lethal wrote:They can't trade Victorino or Werth for Holliday. That just fills one hole in the OF while creating another.

I can't imagine it being just Carrasco and Happ either. What do the Phillies really have to trade if they don't want to give up major pieces that create holes? Carrasco, Happ, Donald, maybe Ruiz or Marson (but it sounds like Amaro loves Marson), Golson maybe. That's about it. I don't know if all of those players together would get Holliday from the Rockies.

I also don't think I'd trade all of those players for Holliday and his really low non-Coors OPS.

Golson maybe?

If he weren't repped by Boras, I'd almost think there was a decent chance the Phils could sign Holliday long-term. With Eaton, Jenkins and Thome off the books in 2010, $20MM is freed up right there. If you start adding in other possible FA's like Myers and Moyer, the number jumps to closer to $40MM. Of course, some of that will go to Hamels and Howard (even if it's only via arbitration) and to others getting more (Werth, Victorino, etc.), but there's enough dead weight coming off the payroll that they could probably afford to give Holliday a new contract -- if not for Boras, who'll undoubtedly want to put Holliday on the open market so the Yanks, Mets, Red Sox, etc., can bid on him.

I figure the bidding starts with Carrasco, Happ plus another prospect or three (Golson+?). Pretty steep price to pay for one year of Holliday. But, in a year, Holliday might decide he really likes playing in Philly, so anything could happen.

Warszawa wrote:Golson maybe?

As in maybe the Rockies want him, but maybe (probably) not.

they want pitching, not golson

philliesr98 wrote:they want pitching, not golson

Don't they have a manager who believes in G-U-T-S over O-P-S? Who knows what they want? And it probably makes sense to take the best package rather than whichever is more pitching heavy.

philliesphhan wrote:If we didn't trade for Holliday and the A's did, I think that would be pretty funny. Even if Holliday is improving on the road, Oakland's field wouldn't be very kind to him.

Gio Gonzales, Josh Outman and that Cardenas guy would probably do the trick.

ek wrote:And Utley is the best player in baseball right now.

Oh, Keith Law, you know the way to my heart.

Houshphandzadeh wrote:Don't they have a manager who believes in G-O-D over O-P-S? Who knows what they want? And it probably makes sense to take the best package rather than whichever is more pitching heavy.

FYP