Pedro Feliz walks

by **Vote for Kalas** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 00:55:09

JFLNYC wrote:
Vote for Kalas wrote:Feliz is overpaid

Feliz' MORP is $4,775,000. His salary is $3MM. So, actually, he's underpaid.

I am unfamiliar with MORP...is it money over replacement player?

Ok, he is getting less in 2008, but will be paid 5M next year (thus overpaid) with a club option for 5M the next season (thus overpaid).

He is a good defense piss poor hitter 3B...he is not good enough and is the same mistake the Phillies have made over and over since Rolen.

by **Vote for Kalas** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 00:56:00

Trent Steele wrote:
JFLNYC wrote:
Vote for Kalas wrote:Feliz is overpaid

Feliz' MORP is $4,775,000. His salary is $3MM. So, actually, he's underpaid.

What he said

And what he said was highly selective dropping out the facts that contradicted his point.

by **Vote for Kalas** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 01:01:55

Trent Steele wrote:
Vote for Kalas wrote:
Trent Steele wrote:
He's not good, but he's not awful.

It is not reflexive since it is based upon his performance so far and his track record as a player in the ML.

The above ringing endorsement aside, Feliz is overpaid and represents another in an unfortunately long line of mediocre 3B the Phillies have brought in to replace Rolen...

I'm not happy taking the side of either Feliz or the Phillies but....

Did they try to sign Lowell?
An OPS+ of 90 and very good defense from Feliz - both within reasonable expectation - would make up roughly a league average 3B, which is more than $3 million

Yea, but they tried to sign Soriano for 120M too and traded for an injured Garcia and signed Gordon and signed Eaton and signed Helms, Nunez, traded Abreu/Lidle for slop, tried to dump Burrell etc. My trust level is low with the Phillies & Gillick. Lowell certainly would have been an upgrade and Gillick went to ownership and convinced them to give him more $$ to offer. Where was that creativity to help the pitching? Why did we settle for Feliz?

If Feliz wins a gold glove and hits beyond his career levels, then perhaps it turns out to be great, but somehow I doubt either of those will happen.

His defense so far has been ok and his offense is close to his usual performance. I guess I am sick of the Bell, Helms, Nunez, Feliz-type 3B and want to get someone better.

by **Vote for Kalas** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 01:05:38

Laexile wrote:Barajas was 31 and Dobbs 29. That's not as old as Feliz but not young either. Both had walk rates even worse than Feliz. As noted before Barajas nearly tripled his walk rate and Dobbs nearly doubled his. Aaron Rowand actually had a worse walk rate in his first year with the Phillies but last year he was 37% above his career average. It's only speculation but I'm guessing players are told that you get playing time in Philly by taking pitches.

Barajas did that, but lost playing time. The Inky cited his low batting average indicating he was a disappointment, even though his OBP was much higher and his double and home run rates were within his norms. Helms didn't walk and he too lost playing time.

Barajas had 122 AB with the Phillies...can we draw solid conclusions from such a small sample?

by **Laexile** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 03:22:44

Considering that he had 1/3 of the plate appearances of 2006 and more walks I'd guess we could. But let's group our samples together:

New Players(before) 4,620 PAs 6.8% walk rate
New Players(2007 w/Phils) 1,121 PAs 10.5% walk rate; 54% increase

13 Players(before) 23,085 PAs 8.8% walk rate
13 Players(2007 w/Phils) 5,832 PAs 10.6% walk rate; 20% increase

9 of 13, 69%, players showed increases and all 9 increased by a minimum of 19%. Utley, Iguchi, Rollins, and Helms declined.

by **phorever** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 03:53:38

Vote for Kalas wrote:
JFLNYC wrote:
Vote for Kalas wrote:Feliz is overpaid

Feliz' MORP is $4,775,000. His salary is $3MM. So, actually, he's underpaid.

I am unfamiliar with MORP...is it money over replacement player?

Ok, he is getting less in 2008, but will be paid 5M next year (thus overpaid) with a club option for 5M the next season (thus overpaid).

there's this funny little concept called "inflation" you might have heard of...
oh, and "replacement" means league minimum salary, which is about a half million, so the total "fair" salary for feliz is over 5 million even without inflation.

to make your argument that feliz is overpaid you would be better off consulting shore, who can point out that the estimates of defensive value that go into "morp" are highly uncertain and may well be overestimating that value. i believe the metric used is uzr, which comes from one of the leading sabremetric analysts... but he's not perfect, and there are other tools out there that give different results. i'm hoping for the phillies sake that uzr is right.

of course, the easiest argument against feliz is that he is old enough that even his defensive production is likely to go off a cliff sometime soon.

my own position? there is at least a chance that feliz will be worth his salary in 08-09 because of his defense (and i object to you dismissing this possibility out of hand), and he might have been correctly scouted as the type of player whose offense can improve significantly in the phillies system, but his age could all too easily negate both of those possibilities.

by **Trent Steele** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:05:01

Vote for Kalas wrote:
Yea, but they tried to sign Soriano for 120M too and traded for an injured Garcia and signed Gordon and signed Eaton and signed Helms, Nunez, traded Abreu/Lidle for slop, tried to dump Burrell etc. My trust level is low with the Phillies & Gillick. Lowell certainly would have been an upgrade and Gillick went to ownership and convinced them to give him more $$ to offer. Where was that creativity to help the pitching? Why did we settle for Feliz?

If Feliz wins a gold glove and hits beyond his career levels, then perhaps it turns out to be great, but somehow I doubt either of those will happen.

His defense so far has been ok and his offense is close to his usual performance. I guess I am sick of the Bell, Helms, Nunez, Feliz-type 3B and want to get someone better.

I'm not sure what any of those things have to do with Pedro Feliz. My argument has nothing to do with Pat Gillick and Ruben Amaro or whether they should have used the Feliz money to sign Loshe or whatever. The question posed is: (1) whether Feliz sucks; and (2) whether he is going to be worth what he is going to be paid.

By the way, if Feliz hits beyond his career levels (let's say above 100 OPS+) and wins a gold glove, it would be an absolute freaking steal of a deal. If he hits around his career average and plays very good 3B, its more than worth the money he is being paid and a clear upgrade over Dobbs (who had a whopping OPS+ of 96 in this breakout year and cant play 3B) and Helms.

by **Woody** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:19:42

Take your serious and intelligent baseball discussions elsewhere. This thread is for blog whoring and making fun of Pedro :roll:

by **philliesphhan** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 14:40:57

I'd like to call this better than doing and more pointless than my homework:

http://www.youtube.com/user/pedrofelizwalks

by 1 » Tue Apr 15, 2008 14:45:57

thank you for that

by **Woody** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 19:17:19

OWN THE T-SHIRT TODAY

by **phuturephillies** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 20:12:43

Nice to see you were able to get karn to model the shirt

by **Woody** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 20:17:35

That's actually Pedro

by **phuturephillies** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 20:19:06

you fucking liar

by **Wizlah** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:37:58

Me likee. Tres good.

by 1 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:48:01

Look cool without breaking the bank.

by **Woody** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:52:20

This is a cheap-o t-shirt for the budget minded Pedromaniac

by **Phight On!** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 16:49:50

How could you forget the Happy Peter boxer shorts?

I mean that is a no-brainer right?

by **Woody** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 17:49:57

Did Apple release the 32 GB iPhone on the first shot?

by **Phight On!** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 18:10:17

I'll PM you the address to send my royalty checks.

Edit: I don't know, did they?

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Pedro Feliz walks