Pedro Feliz walks

by **Woody** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 14:12:24

that's just your opinoin

by **Bob Loblaw** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 14:14:26

Woody wrote:dammit people do you want a t-shirt or not?

I wanted a t-shirt...

by **smitty** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 14:17:04

I always believed the ability to walk was a skill that guys really couldn't learn after the age of 22 or 23 or so. But some things have happened recently that make that view look to be wrong. As LA pointed out, a bunch of guys have come to the Phils and improved their ability to walk. And he didn't even mention Chase Utley and his dramatic rise in walks drawn as he as gotten older.

The Mariners last year were the worst team in the AL at drawing walks. Under new manager, John Mclaren (he took over last year but this is his first full season), the team has been emphasising trying to get more walks from Sring Training on.

The Mariners are now 2nd in the league in walks with 53, about ten more than the average AL team. So maybe teams and players can become better at drawing the walk. (I'm not going to use the word patient --- Mclaren wants his team to be aggressive yet draw more walks and that actually makes sense).

All that said, I'd be surprised it Feliz makes more than a marginal improvment here. I say this because he just looks clueless at the plate. He is trying to be patient it looks like. He's taking a lot of piotches in some at bats. But he look like he's taking pitches he should swing at and swinging at stuff out of the strike zone.

We'll see though because it's early yet.

by **Laexile** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 14:50:48

smitty, walking is the one skill that increases dramatically with age, especially in their 30's. When kids are young, walks aren't emphasized. Players get drafted by showing they can hit. When they get to the majors the pitchers throw faster and are better at location. It takes a while for them to learn the major league pitchers and strike zones.

by **phuturephillies** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 14:57:49

Laexile wrote:smitty, walking is the one skill that increases dramatically with age, especially in their 30's. When kids are young, walks aren't emphasized. Players get drafted by showing they can hit. When they get to the majors the pitchers throw faster and are better at location. It takes a while for them to learn the major league pitchers and strike zones.

Lets see your data set for this.

by **TenuredVulture** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 14:58:11

Laexile wrote:smitty, walking is the one skill that increases dramatically with age, especially in their 30's. When kids are young, walks aren't emphasized. Players get drafted by showing they can hit. When they get to the majors the pitchers throw faster and are better at location. It takes a while for them to learn the major league pitchers and strike zones.

It's because when you get older, you just can't swing like you used to.

by **Vote for Kalas** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 15:46:52

Trent Steele wrote:
He's not good, but he's not awful.

It is not reflexive since it is based upon his performance so far and his track record as a player in the ML.

The above ringing endorsement aside, Feliz is overpaid and represents another in an unfortunately long line of mediocre 3B the Phillies have brought in to replace Rolen...

by **Laexile** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 15:47:01

phuturephillies wrote:
Laexile wrote:smitty, walking is the one skill that increases dramatically with age, especially in their 30's. When kids are young, walks aren't emphasized. Players get drafted by showing they can hit. When they get to the majors the pitchers throw faster and are better at location. It takes a while for them to learn the major league pitchers and strike zones.

Lets see your data set for this.

Bill James did a big study on this in one of his books a few years ago concluding that walks usually increase with age. I'm sure some of this is what Tenured says, as bat speed slows, players compensate in another area.

by **phuturephillies** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 15:50:51

Laexile wrote:
phuturephillies wrote:
Laexile wrote:smitty, walking is the one skill that increases dramatically with age, especially in their 30's. When kids are young, walks aren't emphasized. Players get drafted by showing they can hit. When they get to the majors the pitchers throw faster and are better at location. It takes a while for them to learn the major league pitchers and strike zones.

Lets see your data set for this.

Bill James did a big study on this in one of his books a few years ago concluding that walks usually increase with age. I'm sure some of this is what Tenured says, as bat speed slows, players compensate in another area.

More specific please.

by **JFLNYC** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 15:55:06

Vote for Kalas wrote:Feliz is overpaid

Feliz' MORP is $4,775,000. His salary is $3MM. So, actually, he's underpaid.

by **Trent Steele** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 16:03:41

JFLNYC wrote:
Vote for Kalas wrote:Feliz is overpaid

Feliz' MORP is $4,775,000. His salary is $3MM. So, actually, he's underpaid.

What he said

by **Trent Steele** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 16:07:48

Vote for Kalas wrote:
Trent Steele wrote:
He's not good, but he's not awful.

It is not reflexive since it is based upon his performance so far and his track record as a player in the ML.

The above ringing endorsement aside, Feliz is overpaid and represents another in an unfortunately long line of mediocre 3B the Phillies have brought in to replace Rolen...

I'm not happy taking the side of either Feliz or the Phillies but....

Did they try to sign Lowell?
An OPS+ of 90 and very good defense from Feliz - both within reasonable expectation - would make up roughly a league average 3B, which is more than $3 million

by **smitty** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 16:17:21

Laexile wrote:smitty, walking is the one skill that increases dramatically with age, especially in their 30's. When kids are young, walks aren't emphasized. Players get drafted by showing they can hit. When they get to the majors the pitchers throw faster and are better at location. It takes a while for them to learn the major league pitchers and strike zones.

I know what you're talking about here. The "old player skills" thing. Some players, increase power and walks as they age. I think the increase in walks is a result of the increase in power the more I read about this type of thing.

Feliz has been incredibly consistent over the last three years -- 20 home runs -- .250 average -- low OBP -- SLG around .420 of so. I don't see him as one of those guys who will do the increase in power/increase in walks thing. He's already pretty old to begin with.

The thing that's happened with some of the Phillies players has been something different. A spike in walks drawn for some of their players. I think this is pretty unusual. Although the early walk increase by the Mariners which seems to be the result of the team's emphasis has been also surprising and unusual I think.

by **Disco Stu** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 17:04:45

Harry Monroe wrote:
Woody wrote:dammit people do you want a t-shirt or not?

I wanted a t-shirt...

Signed by Woody?

by **pacino** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 17:56:16

smitty wrote:
Laexile wrote:smitty, walking is the one skill that increases dramatically with age, especially in their 30's. When kids are young, walks aren't emphasized. Players get drafted by showing they can hit. When they get to the majors the pitchers throw faster and are better at location. It takes a while for them to learn the major league pitchers and strike zones.

I know what you're talking about here. The "old player skills" thing. Some players, increase power and walks as they age. I think the increase in walks is a result of the increase in power the more I read about this type of thing.

Feliz has been incredibly consistent over the last three years -- 20 home runs -- .250 average -- low OBP -- SLG around .420 of so. I don't see him as one of those guys who will do the increase in power/increase in walks thing. He's already pretty old to begin with.

The thing that's happened with some of the Phillies players has been something different. A spike in walks drawn for some of their players. I think this is pretty unusual. Although the early walk increase by the Mariners which seems to be the result of the team's emphasis has been also surprising and unusual I think.

Rod Barajas caught the walking bug with us last year. Get around a bunch of guys that emphasize a certain way of controlling the plate and you'll start to copy it yourself.

by **Laexile** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 19:49:59

Barajas was 31 and Dobbs 29. That's not as old as Feliz but not young either. Both had walk rates even worse than Feliz. As noted before Barajas nearly tripled his walk rate and Dobbs nearly doubled his. Aaron Rowand actually had a worse walk rate in his first year with the Phillies but last year he was 37% above his career average. It's only speculation but I'm guessing players are told that you get playing time in Philly by taking pitches.

Barajas did that, but lost playing time. The Inky cited his low batting average indicating he was a disappointment, even though his OBP was much higher and his double and home run rates were within his norms. Helms didn't walk and he too lost playing time.

by **philliesphhan** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 21:10:08

Dobbs didn't have much of a history in MLB to go on. His walk rate in the minors is about the same as 2007.

by **Laexile** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 21:33:15

He had 238 plate appearances. While that isn't a big number it isn't insignificant. His walk rate last year was lower than his minor league rate and MLEs show lower stats for players not higher ones.

by **philliesphhan** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 21:38:17

238 is pretty damn small over a 3 year period. He walked once every 11.17 AB or so last year and once every 12.48 in the minors. Not terribly significant

by **swishnicholson** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 23:17:16

Trent Steele wrote:I don't like Feliz, but the reflexive dislike so far has been pretty stupid.

He's been decent defensively, unlike everyone else in the infield. And his 4 BB is 5th on the team and only two fewer than Utley.

He's not good, but he's not awful.

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