Wuhan deaths may have been 20x worse than what’s been reported.

Our intelligence agencies suck and our president got suckered.

The Savior wrote:40% of trump voters now think he has mishandled this pandemic. 17% flip in 1 week.

Navigator Research

That is impressive movement.

@savior, why do you think any of the information that the intelligence agencies have or have given to the president is public?

Alternatively, the president has been at least as well briefed as all of us about the problems in China that were scary and public to some degree starting in December. follow that with Iran and Italy's problems and I cannot imagine where you feel that the president was suckered. Ignorant and delusional are words I could accept.

Werthless wrote:

The Savior wrote:40% of trump voters now think he has mishandled this pandemic. 17% flip in 1 week.

Navigator Research

That is impressive movement.

If there is a silver lining in all of this it’s that trump will not win re-election

thephan wrote:@savior, why do you think any of the information that the intelligence agencies have or have given to the president is public?

Alternatively, the president has been at least as well briefed as all of us about the problems in China that were scary and public to some degree starting in December. follow that with Iran and Italy's problems and I cannot imagine where you feel that the president was suckered. Ignorant and delusional are words I could accept.

Articles out stating that the CIA has been telling the Whitehouse for weeks how much worse it was in China than reported

It makes you wonder if our intelligence is often wrong for them to ignore it.

heyeaglefn wrote:It makes you wonder if our intelligence is often wrong for them to ignore it.

<<<Not sure if serious meme>>>

heyeaglefn wrote:It makes you wonder if our intelligence is often wrong for them to ignore it.

Yah, just like intelligence said there was no threat from Iran and we decided to do the opposite.

our growth rate is higher than most nations and the amount of people we have is incredibly high in comparison to many nations who were hit harder earlier. Their population is also generally older. our per capita may currently be lower, but it won't be soon enough. we still have states without stay at home orders; states that don't have the hospital infrastructure to combat an outbreak there.

Louisiana/Missippii/Alabama/Georgia/Florida is starting to see a big outbreak. will it get to NY levels? It's simply not as compact but it's also a multi-state region with no coordination. it's not going to be good, folks. And this starts at the top. How a leader conveys a message MATTERS. How they prepare before there is a crisis MATTERS. This is why you hire a bunch of competent people. This is why you don't alienate/ignore experts in their fields. This is why you work with municipalities and states instead of bashing them/blaming them.

this isn't going to be good. and you're fucking a right I will blame trump.

Look, I compare some of this to 9/11 where the story is “well we tried to tell people” but “our agencies weren’t coordinated enough.” Too many chefs cooking different menus.

This feels like that to be honest. I get it’s different as the “terrorist” this time is an authoritarian government with all the reason to lie (and the ability to make that lie appear very real).

But if we all knew then how did it become so fucked up? If anything, it’s a testament to how useless our bureaucracy is - where the F is congress? Our military?

It’s a failure of many not one despite how badly the one has done throughout.

The true story is coming. But I’m frustrated.

PhillieMooDo wrote:

heyeaglefn wrote:It makes you wonder if our intelligence is often wrong for them to ignore it.

<<<Not sure if serious meme>>>

Only a little bit. I'd love to know if we have intelligence on say 1000 things, how often does it actually pan out? I'd imagine we get thousands of pieces of intelligence every day.

I wonder if they put a confidence number to these intelligence reports.

The Savior wrote:Look, I compare some of this to 9/11 where the story is “well we tried to tell people” but “our agencies weren’t coordinated enough.” Too many chefs cooking different menus.

This feels like that to be honest. I get it’s different as the “terrorist” this time is an authoritarian government with all the reason to lie (and the ability to make that lie appear very real).

But if we all knew then how did it become so fucked up? If anything, it’s a testament to how useless our bureaucracy is - where the F is congress? Our military?

It’s a failure of many not one despite how badly the one has done throughout.

The true story is coming. But I’m frustrated.

Seems like there was a pretty obvious lag time between us all realizing big a deal this was and the administration taking it seriously, assuming they are even taking it properly seriously now. I'm not gonna get into parsing out the 9/11 analogy because that frankly makes me feel sort of gross but I would say that's pretty off. You're comparing a covert attack to something that has been the main story in the news since like mid January.

The Dude wrote:I can and can't believe this is being politicized. what bizarre times

^^^This^^^

But if the failure has (at least in part) political causes then doesn't it make sense? That is, you've got a political party that has failed repeatedly to deal with successive crises. Though 9/11 is debatable, the fiascoes in Iraq and Afghanistan, Katrina, and the 2008 mortgage crisis were all made worse by Republican incompetence (and a failure of the media to hold them accountable). It's happening again now. And while Trump is spectacularly ill-equipped to deal with all this, there are deeper roots in a party that has long abandoned the idea of competency as a relevant criteria for government. I think there's a connection between the incompetence and ideology of the Republican party--the party is guided by a an ideology that is simply a failure.

pacino wrote:
Louisiana/Missippii/Alabama/Georgia/Florida is starting to see a big outbreak. will it get to NY levels? It's simply not as compact but it's also a multi-state region with no coordination. it's not going to be good, folks.

I fear this part of the country, particularly the Gulf states, will be a total disaster. Between the lack of quality medical care compared to other parts of the country, the already poor health outcomes for people living there (look at life expediencies), and the high poverty rates (poor people will need to go out more because they can't buy a month's worth of food at once), it's very scary to think about.

TenuredVulture wrote:But if the failure has (at least in part) political causes then doesn't it make sense? That is, you've got a political party that has failed repeatedly to deal with successive crises. Though 9/11 is debatable, the fiascoes in Iraq and Afghanistan, Katrina, and the 2008 mortgage crisis were all made worse by Republican incompetence (and a failure of the media to hold them accountable). It's happening again now. And while Trump is spectacularly ill-equipped to deal with all this, there are deeper roots in a party that has long abandoned the idea of competency as a relevant criteria for government. I think there's a connection between the incompetence and ideology of the Republican party--the party is guided by a an ideology that is simply a failure.

It's only going to get worse with each new Republican administration. As the technocratic professional class continues to flee the party en masse, they're going to have to fill the Plum Book positions with more and more incompetent "business leaders," conservative media figures, Freedom Caucus congressmen, and the like.

Augustus wrote:

pacino wrote:
Louisiana/Missippii/Alabama/Georgia/Florida is starting to see a big outbreak. will it get to NY levels? It's simply not as compact but it's also a multi-state region with no coordination. it's not going to be good, folks.

I fear this part of the country, particularly the Gulf states, will be a total disaster. Between the lack of quality medical care compared to other parts of the country, the already poor health outcomes for people living there (look at life expediencies), and the high poverty rates (poor people will need to go out more because they can't buy a month's worth of food at once), it's very scary to think about.

TenuredVulture wrote:But if the failure has (at least in part) political causes then doesn't it make sense? That is, you've got a political party that has failed repeatedly to deal with successive crises. Though 9/11 is debatable, the fiascoes in Iraq and Afghanistan, Katrina, and the 2008 mortgage crisis were all made worse by Republican incompetence (and a failure of the media to hold them accountable). It's happening again now. And while Trump is spectacularly ill-equipped to deal with all this, there are deeper roots in a party that has long abandoned the idea of competency as a relevant criteria for government. I think there's a connection between the incompetence and ideology of the Republican party--the party is guided by a an ideology that is simply a failure.

It's only going to get worse with each new Republican administration. As the technocratic professional class continues to flee the party en masse, they're going to have to fill the Plum Book positions with more and more incompetent "business leaders," conservative media figures, Freedom Caucus congressmen, and the like.

For that reason, hopefully this is the last Republican administration in our lifetimes.

06hawkalum wrote:

Augustus wrote:

pacino wrote:
Louisiana/Missippii/Alabama/Georgia/Florida is starting to see a big outbreak. will it get to NY levels? It's simply not as compact but it's also a multi-state region with no coordination. it's not going to be good, folks.

I fear this part of the country, particularly the Gulf states, will be a total disaster. Between the lack of quality medical care compared to other parts of the country, the already poor health outcomes for people living there (look at life expediencies), and the high poverty rates (poor people will need to go out more because they can't buy a month's worth of food at once), it's very scary to think about.

TenuredVulture wrote:But if the failure has (at least in part) political causes then doesn't it make sense? That is, you've got a political party that has failed repeatedly to deal with successive crises. Though 9/11 is debatable, the fiascoes in Iraq and Afghanistan, Katrina, and the 2008 mortgage crisis were all made worse by Republican incompetence (and a failure of the media to hold them accountable). It's happening again now. And while Trump is spectacularly ill-equipped to deal with all this, there are deeper roots in a party that has long abandoned the idea of competency as a relevant criteria for government. I think there's a connection between the incompetence and ideology of the Republican party--the party is guided by a an ideology that is simply a failure.

It's only going to get worse with each new Republican administration. As the technocratic professional class continues to flee the party en masse, they're going to have to fill the Plum Book positions with more and more incompetent "business leaders," conservative media figures, Freedom Caucus congressmen, and the like.

For that reason, hopefully this is the last Republican administration in our lifetimes.

fat chance as long as people view taxes as wasteful spending.

Let’s not paint this with too broad a brush. I live on the Gulf coast of Florida, (Naples, to be exact) which has the 6th largest per capita income in the country, 2nd highest proportion of millionaires and offers excellent healthcare. Actually things are many magnitudes worse in the east coast of Florida than here on the Gulf.

Stripes wrote:

The Dude wrote:I can and can't believe this is being politicized. what bizarre times

^^^This^^^

Democrats, amiright