Politics: What’s so Super about Tuesday?

by **jamiethekiller** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 20:58:15

A government should want to have a healthy and educated populous. Imagine thinking that is a bat shit crazy idea.

by **Werthless** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 20:58:38

Uncle Milty wrote:
Wolfgang622 wrote:Just looking at the number of people on this board who have the candidates in more or less the exact opposite order tells you something: there is already a third party in this country. The Trump Party, Republican Democrats, and Social Democrats.

This is so fucking dismissive and insulting.

Those away from the extremes might see it more like Republicans and Democrats bookended by bat-shit-crazy, echo chamber ultra-conservatives (esp. Trumpers) and bat-shit-crazy, echo chamber ultra-liberals (esp. Bernie Bros./Sanders Sisters).

There are very few people who call themselves Republicans who do not currently support the President. He has 90% approval rate within the GOP, according to the articles I just googled on Jan 2020 polls. "Republicans who don't support Trump" is less than 5% of the US population. Democrats have a substantial proportion that support the liberal wing (Sanders and Warren, I'll say). That's at least 20% of the voting population.

Not sure why that division would be considered offensive. Can you share? Are you a republican who objects to being lumped in with Trump?

by **da_bad_ass** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 21:02:23

Uncle Milty wrote:
Wolfgang622 wrote:Just looking at the number of people on this board who have the candidates in more or less the exact opposite order tells you something: there is already a third party in this country. The Trump Party, Republican Democrats, and Social Democrats.

This is so fucking dismissive and insulting.

Those away from the extremes might see it more like Republicans and Democrats bookended by bat-shit-crazy, echo chamber ultra-conservatives (esp. Trumpers) and bat-shit-crazy, echo chamber ultra-liberals (esp. Bernie Bros./Sanders Sisters).

by **da_bad_ass** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 21:04:52

i'm sorry for bashing joe biden now that bloomberg is taking his place. sorry joe.

by **Uncle Milty** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 21:32:24

Werthless wrote:
Uncle Milty wrote:
Wolfgang622 wrote:Just looking at the number of people on this board who have the candidates in more or less the exact opposite order tells you something: there is already a third party in this country. The Trump Party, Republican Democrats, and Social Democrats.

This is so fucking dismissive and insulting.

Those away from the extremes might see it more like Republicans and Democrats bookended by bat-shit-crazy, echo chamber ultra-conservatives (esp. Trumpers) and bat-shit-crazy, echo chamber ultra-liberals (esp. Bernie Bros./Sanders Sisters).

There are very few people who call themselves Republicans who do not currently support the President. He has 90% approval rate within the GOP, according to the articles I just googled on Jan 2020 polls. "Republicans who don't support Trump" is less than 5% of the US population. Democrats have a substantial proportion that support the liberal wing (Sanders and Warren, I'll say). That's at least 20% of the voting population.

Not sure why that division would be considered offensive. Can you share? Are you a republican who objects to being lumped in with Trump?

I'm a lifelong democrat who strongly dislikes the insinuation that I'm essentially a Republican because I'm not as liberal as the extreme left. I'm also disturbed by the similarities I see in the extreme left and extreme right.

by **06hawkalum** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 21:39:41

I wish us Dems would stop bashing our candidates. Period.

Every single one of them is 1000x better than Trump. Primary season is the time for division but we sure as fuck better unite behind whoever has (D) next to his or her name in November whether it's Bernie, Bloomberg, or someone inbetween.

Otherwise we deserve another four years of Trump and to lose every single seat on the SC.

by **Uncle Milty** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 21:51:39

06hawkalum wrote:I wish us Dems would stop bashing our candidates. Period.

Every single one of them is 1000x better than Trump. Primary season is the time for division but we sure as fuck better unite behind whoever has (D) next to his or her name in November whether it's Bernie, Bloomberg, or someone inbetween.

Otherwise we deserve another four years of Trump and to lose every single seat on the SC.

Agree with this 100%. I'd vote for a reincarnated Reagan with a reanimated Agnew as his VP before I'd not vote against Trump. And that's from someone who believes Reaganism largely destroyed what I dreamed we'd be by now.

I worry about uniting behind the candidate, especially if it's not Sanders. In all the interviews I've heard, seen, read somewhere around 25% of Sanders' supporters indicated they wouldn't vote for the Dem. nominee if it's not Bernie. Guess that's not really a surprising number, even if it's disappointing.

Whoever the candidate is may not provide the America we want but they will stop the destruction of the America that, however lacking it is, we have.

by **jamiethekiller** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 22:04:14

you could play a long game of 'who said it' and 'who did it' between trump and bloomberg and you'd probably end up 50% right.

by **06hawkalum** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 22:20:28

jamiethekiller wrote:you could play a long game of 'who said it' and 'who did it' between trump and bloomberg and you'd probably end up 50% right.

One those being "successfully built an empire and became one the world's richest men without being born with a silver spoon in his mouth."

by **Augustus** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 23:39:44

Not sure if the original post meant literally "Republican Democrats" or "republican democrats." I think the second is an apt descriptor of people ranging from the never-Trump center right to the center left in that they share many common beliefs: market economy, internationalist/interventionist foreign policy, equality and natural rights, limited government and constitutionalism, and the value of incrementalism and institutions. They also seem to prize traditional middle class values of civility and decorum as essential parts of the political culture. As noted, most of these people are Democrats now, save for the odd David French or Yuval Levin or whoever.

The Trump right pays lip service to some of these things, but it's ultimately empty as they are deeply authoritarian and their loyalty to the Bill of Rights, the free market, etc. only goes as far as it preserves their unearned privileges. Free speech means the right to be bigoted and capitalism means keep your government hands off my Medicare obummer.

The Sanders left sees many of these things as dehumanizing and destructive and the middle group can't get their heads around that.

by **traderdave** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 09:32:39

Uncle Milty wrote:
Werthless wrote:
Uncle Milty wrote:
Wolfgang622 wrote:Just looking at the number of people on this board who have the candidates in more or less the exact opposite order tells you something: there is already a third party in this country. The Trump Party, Republican Democrats, and Social Democrats.

This is so #$!&@ dismissive and insulting.

Those away from the extremes might see it more like Republicans and Democrats bookended by #$!&@, echo chamber ultra-conservatives (esp. Trumpers) and #$!&@, echo chamber ultra-liberals (esp. Bernie Bros./Sanders Sisters).

There are very few people who call themselves Republicans who do not currently support the President. He has 90% approval rate within the GOP, according to the articles I just googled on Jan 2020 polls. "Republicans who don't support Trump" is less than 5% of the US population. Democrats have a substantial proportion that support the liberal wing (Sanders and Warren, I'll say). That's at least 20% of the voting population.

Not sure why that division would be considered offensive. Can you share? Are you a republican who objects to being lumped in with Trump?

I'm a lifelong democrat who strongly dislikes the insinuation that I'm essentially a Republican because I'm not as liberal as the extreme left. I'm also disturbed by the similarities I see in the extreme left and extreme right.

This is precisely where I am, which is why Klobuchar and Biden are still at the top of my list. Like with Clinton in '16, I would have to hold my nose to vote for Sanders/Warren and would have a tough time voting for Buttigieg/Bloomberg at all. But, I live in NJ so my vote is simply going to determine margin of victory for the D nominee.

by **JUburton** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:02:47

Uncle Milty wrote:
pacino wrote:Why should an "illegal immigrant" ,as you write, not receive healthcare

Why should they?

It's because they're human.

by **slugsrbad** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:16:19

I think the biggest thing about the far right and the far left is that the far left is mostly online and the politician is not as bad as the worst of the following. Trump is the worst enabler of the far right. I also have faith (to the chagrin or joy of most) that Nancy Pelosi has more backbone than Paul Ryan. If Bernie Sanders became President she wouldn’t bend over backward to every whim.

by **CalvinBall** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:17:41

also a majority of illegal immigrants pay federal, state and local taxes!

by **JUburton** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:24:37

To both sides/horseshoe theory far right (aka borderline nazis) and far left (healthcare is a human right, soak the rich, let people use their own pronouns) is just...wrong.

I think slugs is right that there's a element of tact that the worst of them share, and I don't think that the stereotypical 'bernie bro' online troll mentality is good but to use that to say the far left is as batshit as the far right is disingenuous and probably exactly what the far right wants.

by **Werthless** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:48:35

When people assert that Sanders is too liberal for them, what aspects are they thinking of? I'm curious.

Relatedly, I saw some of the headlines on a single payer study that found that a program like Medicare-For-All would save 68k lives per year, and save families an average of $2,400 per year in healthcare costs (the average family would see higher taxes, but their healthcare costs would drop to zero). Healthcare policy is one of the areas that I always considered Sanders/Warren to be quite liberal ("Who's gonna pay for the extra healthcare? It's not free."), but this study suggests that a single-payer system would be cheaper due to lower admin costs. 68k lives per year, or 1 million lives over 15 years, while reducing overall healthcare costs seems like a huge win. And that could be a big reason for Sanders/Warren support among those under 50 years old.

https://www.newsweek.com/medicare-all-w ... ws-1487862

by **Werthless** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:51:41

JUburton wrote:To both sides/horseshoe theory far right (aka borderline nazis) and far left (healthcare is a human right, soak the rich, let people use their own pronouns) is just...wrong.

I think slugs is right that there's a element of tact that the worst of them share, and I don't think that the stereotypical 'bernie bro' online troll mentality is good but to use that to say the far left is as batshit as the far right is disingenuous and probably exactly what the far right wants.

Healthcare as a human right is already reflected in our laws. Hospitals are not allowed to turn away uninsured patients. They are not allowed to turn away folks without ID. We are already paying for healthcare for all, but we're paying for it inefficiently. There is not enough money spent on preventative care, and too much money spent on dealing with coverage/insurance/paperwork/reimbursements.

by **jamiethekiller** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:54:29

beyond the pale to think 'free healthcare' is some nazi version of liberalism. same with education. its fundamental to creating a better society to live in.

by **JUburton** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:05:55

Might actually watch the debate tonight to see Bloomberg get the shit kicked out of him by the entire field.

by **pacino** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:38:52

Sanders is essentially a social democrat, which would be in the muddled middle/ center-left of many other countries.

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