Politics: Fine Politicians on Both Sides

Re: Politics: Fine Politicians on Both Sides

Postby Brantt » Wed Sep 25, 2019 14:48:18

Wolfgang622 wrote:
Brantt wrote:
Wolfgang622 wrote:
swishnicholson wrote:
swishnicholson wrote:Obviously the latest developments have not had time to really show up in a poll aggregator like 538, but FWIW Trump is at the closest to Obama's approval rating at the same point in his term as he has ever been: 42.4 on day 977 compared to 42.5 for Obama. That was the low point for Obama in his first term, though, as he began a steady climb toward 50% before the election.


Update: now surging ahead of Obama's numbers, as the American people celebrate the Imperial Presidency or a Bad Episode of Veep or whatever this.

Seat of the pants observation-the talk of impeachment continues to harm Democrats more than help, as people not deeply involved in the process get confused how they there can be talk of this while they are also getting inundated with election news-there's a process in place to remove the President, so why bother with this extra distraction? :dh: :dh: :dh:


They had either better have the “smoking gun” that was needed in the Nixon situation, OR this had better be a ploy by Pelosi to shut the “impeachment” people up - do an “inquiry,” determine no probable cause, and move on.

Pursue impeachment if it is clear, obvious, egregious, and morally severe. A backhanded attempt at bribery/extortion is offensive to me, quite possibly enough to remove a low-profile elected official, but well short of the mark of building the political will to unseat a sitting president who has successfully painted himself as the great white knight of a large and reliably voting portion of the population, with all of the attendant racial implications of that term. Old racist white people are good at one thing: they #$!&@ vote, and they make up overwhelming percentages of the population of states you absolutely have to have to win. Dragging their messiah through the mud with anything less than an airtight case is an unforced error at the very least, but political suicide at the worst. It is pointless swatting at a hornet’s nest —

Unless you have the goods. But you BETTER have them.



Hey look, someone gets it!


So you admit, then, that Trump is a race-baiting racist xenophobe and that these qualities are his primary appeal to a substantial minority if not an outright majority of his followers? Because my post is as much about that as it is the untenability of impeachment related to some pretty standard political walking of the tightrope between "legal bribe" and "extortion."


No, I do not believe that.

I do however feel you, unlike many here and on the left, have a solid grasp of the political landscape heading into the 2020 election.

Congratulations for that.
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Re: Politics: Fine Politicians on Both Sides

Postby CalvinBall » Wed Sep 25, 2019 14:51:40

Where do you develop your grasp, Brantt? Your twitter follows? 4chan?

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Re: Politics: Fine Politicians on Both Sides

Postby Brantt » Wed Sep 25, 2019 15:03:40

CalvinBall wrote:Where do you develop your grasp, Brantt? Your twitter follows? 4chan?


I talk to people. Talk to people across the country in our company, talk to union members in our company, talk to people in my community, at sporting events, tailgates, etc. The more differing views and conversations you can get into, the better a sample you get of what everyday voters are thinking.

Go back and read my takes on Trump before the primaries even started. Dead on. He won because of people like me who were blue collar Democrats their whole lives who voted Republican for the first time because the Democratic party has lost their collective minds. It was millions of crossover votes. The Dems have done 2 things since then............moved the party platform significantly further to the left, and had a failed coup against the POTUS.

Not a winning formula.

60% of the country is against impeachment. Bring it on!!!!
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Re: Politics: Fine Politicians on Both Sides

Postby CalvinBall » Wed Sep 25, 2019 15:06:04

you do realize that 40 percent of people being for it is remarkably high, right? do your people across the country tell you that?

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Re: Politics: Fine Politicians on Both Sides

Postby Bucky » Wed Sep 25, 2019 15:07:31

Squire wrote:I'm trying to figure out whether this helps Biden or hurts him. I mean there is actual video of him bragging about threatening to withhold aid unless a prosecutor was fired (which will have at least the appearance of shadiness to some). On the other hand, Biden can definitely credibly say "see....I'm the guy that Trump fears going up against the most"


best case scenario would be for this thing to knock both of them out

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Re: Politics: Fine Politicians on Both Sides

Postby JUburton » Wed Sep 25, 2019 15:10:12

He won because 100k people in three states voted for him while he lost the popular vote by 3 million people and the electoral college is an outdated system that heavily overrepresents rural, white voters!

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Re: Politics: Fine Politicians on Both Sides

Postby JUburton » Wed Sep 25, 2019 15:12:17

Brantt how many of the people in your union, tailgate, community are below, people of color, lgbt, or below median income [especially people of color below median income]? Perhaps your cross section is not representative of all of america?
Last edited by JUburton on Wed Sep 25, 2019 15:14:54, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Politics: Fine Politicians on Both Sides

Postby Brantt » Wed Sep 25, 2019 15:13:44

CalvinBall wrote:you do realize that 40 percent of people being for it is remarkably high, right? do your people across the country tell you that?


Can't you have a simple, civil conversation without condescending comments? What is wrong with you today?
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Re: Politics: Fine Politicians on Both Sides

Postby Brantt » Wed Sep 25, 2019 15:16:05

JUburton wrote:Brantt how many of the people in your union, tailgate, community are below, people of color, lgbt, or below median income. Perhaps your cross section is not america?


I'd estimate 30-40% overall.

Probably 50/50 in terms of median income level, and 30% overall in terms of minorities. Only a couple of gay people and no transsexuals.

Edit...........Actually, the median family income level in NJ is right around $100K, so I'd say 50/50 is actually understating people I know who are under the median level.
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Re: Politics: Fine Politicians on Both Sides

Postby momadance » Wed Sep 25, 2019 15:21:06

The full complaint will be delivered to Congress by 4:00.

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Re: Politics: Fine Politicians on Both Sides

Postby CalvinBall » Wed Sep 25, 2019 15:39:27

Brantt wrote:
CalvinBall wrote:you do realize that 40 percent of people being for it is remarkably high, right? do your people across the country tell you that?


Can't you have a simple, civil conversation without condescending comments? What is wrong with you today?


Yes, let's debate Crowdstrike and how the hack was an inside job. I mean, that is the kind of stuff you believe. What is the point? This isn't I believed in the principles of the Democratic party but they abandoned me. It is more a story of you and your circle getting duped by a moronic, con man that does not give a shit about you in any sense.

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Re: Politics: Fine Politicians on Both Sides

Postby PhillieMooDo » Wed Sep 25, 2019 15:41:59

CalvinBall wrote:
Brantt wrote:
CalvinBall wrote:you do realize that 40 percent of people being for it is remarkably high, right? do your people across the country tell you that?


Can't you have a simple, civil conversation without condescending comments? What is wrong with you today?


Yes, let's debate Crowdstrike and how the hack was an inside job. I mean, that is the kind of stuff you believe. What is the point? This isn't I believed in the principles of the Democratic party but they abandoned me. It is more a story of you and your circle getting duped by a moronic, con man that does not give a shit about you in any sense.

Nailed it.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former" - Einstein

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Re: Politics: Fine Politicians on Both Sides

Postby TenuredVulture » Wed Sep 25, 2019 15:50:30

Evidently, the Whitehouse sent an e-mail to the House recalling the e-mail they sent earlier with their talking points.

Now, sending the talking points is pretty fucking stupid. But a recall e-mail? My goodness.
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Re: Politics: Fine Politicians on Both Sides

Postby Uncle Milty » Wed Sep 25, 2019 15:59:13

TenuredVulture wrote:Evidently, the Whitehouse sent an e-mail to the House recalling the e-mail they sent earlier with their talking points.

Now, sending the talking points is pretty fucking stupid. But a recall e-mail? My goodness.

Bet they feel stupid for cancelling AOL.
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Re: Politics: Fine Politicians on Both Sides

Postby jamiethekiller » Wed Sep 25, 2019 16:10:16

I don't necessarily disagree with Brannt. IMO all this does is solidify is base more and pushed centrists away from even voting.

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Re: Politics: Fine Politicians on Both Sides

Postby Wolfgang622 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 16:12:17

JUburton wrote:He won because 100k people in three states voted for him while he lost the popular vote by 3 million people and the electoral college is an outdated system that heavily overrepresents rural, white voters!


And it still is, and is going to be.

Impeachment is not a legal process; it is a political one. The legal part can only shine through if the politics are settled first, and they can only be settled by either clear guilt of something simple, easy to understand, and broadly morally offensive (then impeach & remove) or clear innocence (in which case, no process):

Politically, unless it's so clear-cut it can transcend politics and become a legal question, it's a loser.
Last edited by Wolfgang622 on Wed Sep 25, 2019 16:14:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Politics: Fine Politicians on Both Sides

Postby CalvinBall » Wed Sep 25, 2019 16:13:18

do you have links for that or is just a gut feeling?

edit: the its a loser part
Last edited by CalvinBall on Wed Sep 25, 2019 16:20:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Politics: Fine Politicians on Both Sides

Postby JFLNYC » Wed Sep 25, 2019 16:20:38

Moz is correct.
Jamie

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Re: Politics: Fine Politicians on Both Sides

Postby Uncle Milty » Wed Sep 25, 2019 16:21:06

It's a history lesson.
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Re: Politics: Fine Politicians on Both Sides

Postby Brantt » Wed Sep 25, 2019 16:23:48

CalvinBall wrote:
Brantt wrote:
CalvinBall wrote:you do realize that 40 percent of people being for it is remarkably high, right? do your people across the country tell you that?


Can't you have a simple, civil conversation without condescending comments? What is wrong with you today?


Yes, let's debate Crowdstrike and how the hack was an inside job. I mean, that is the kind of stuff you believe. What is the point? This isn't I believed in the principles of the Democratic party but they abandoned me. It is more a story of you and your circle getting duped by a moronic, con man that does not give a #$!&@ about you in any sense.


I don't even know what Crowdstrike is.

Yes, half the country is all stupid and has been duped. We can all only strive to be as intelligent as you. Amazing also how the half that have been duped in general are more successful in life.
Last edited by Brantt on Wed Sep 25, 2019 16:25:12, edited 1 time in total.
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