Politics: Fine Politicians on Both Sides

by **CalvinBall** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 09:17:44

CFP wrote:Totally normal:

Shows they knew it was bad. Complaint says that it is believed that this is not the only time they have dumped transcripts of calls into this top secret server either.

by **CalvinBall** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 09:18:32

Wolfgang622 wrote:The full whistleblower complaint has been released.

If that is all there is, this was a wasted bullet IMHO, unless the Dems quickly find there is not enough for impeachment and move on (unlikely). Every time you start an impeachment inquiry that goes nowhere, you lose credibility.

This will never be enough to garner the necessary votes.

Uh, what?

by **Brantt** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 09:19:31

Please, please let that complaint be the basis for impeachment.

by **CFP** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 09:22:28

Few disturbing things in there, and yeah a few things certainly aren't normal, but I don't see any basis for impeachment.

by **CalvinBall** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 09:22:32

Brantt wrote:Please, please let that complaint be the basis for impeachment.

Did you accidentally read a series of Dilbert cartoons instead of the actual complaint?

by **Bucky** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 09:22:55

TenuredVulture wrote:I do think it needs to be emphasized that even if you want to deny the quid pro quo aspect by claiming circumstantial evidence, Trump, by asking Ukraine to investigate is colluding with a foreign government, asking Ukraine to interfere with our election.

that is correct. R's are very good at spin- in this case setting up the 'quid pro quo' strawman in order to show lack of malfeasance. I didn't read the talking points, but I suspect it was in there, because that was key amongst Toomey's points in his release yesterday.

by **pacino** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 09:26:08

President Zelenskyy: We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it.

by **CalvinBall** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 09:26:14

CFP wrote:Few disturbing things in there, and yeah a few things certainly aren't normal, but I don't see any basis for impeachment.

He used his position as President to demand that a foreign leader look into a political rival over the phone and used his personal lawyer to push this in person. They attempted to cover up the actual phone call by hiding it in a place meant for national security secrets because they knew what Trump was actively doing was actually very bad.

by **Brantt** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 09:28:10

CalvinBall wrote:
CFP wrote:Few disturbing things in there, and yeah a few things certainly aren't normal, but I don't see any basis for impeachment.

He used his position as President to demand that a foreign leader look into a political rival over the phone and used his personal lawyer to push this in person. They attempted to cover up the actual phone call by hiding it in a place meant for national security secrets because they knew what Trump was actively doing was actually very bad.

LMAO.

by **pacino** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 09:28:35

Wolfgang622 wrote:The full whistleblower complaint has been released.

If that is all there is, this was a wasted bullet IMHO, unless the Dems quickly find there is not enough for impeachment and move on (unlikely). Every time you start an impeachment inquiry that goes nowhere, you lose credibility.

This will never be enough to garner the necessary votes.

there has been enough for impeachment for about 2 years now

by **CalvinBall** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 09:30:24

Brantt wrote:
CalvinBall wrote:
CFP wrote:Few disturbing things in there, and yeah a few things certainly aren't normal, but I don't see any basis for impeachment.

He used his position as President to demand that a foreign leader look into a political rival over the phone and used his personal lawyer to push this in person. They attempted to cover up the actual phone call by hiding it in a place meant for national security secrets because they knew what Trump was actively doing was actually very bad.

LMAO.

My favorite part is you always respond like this yet get upset when someone doesn't take you seriously.

by **Brantt** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 09:31:00

pacino wrote:
President Zelenskyy: We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it.

Why stop the quote there? Why not type out the favor he asked for had absolutely zero to do with Biden and everything to do with interference in the 2016 election? I thought Democrats main focus in life was to find out what happened in the 2016 election.

You are a fraud sir.

by **pacino** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 09:32:10

Brantt wrote:
pacino wrote:
President Zelenskyy: We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it.

Why stop the quote there? Why not type out the favor he asked for had absolutely zero to do with Biden and everything to do with interference in the 2016 election? I thought Democrats main focus in life was to find out what happened in the 2016 election.

You are a fraud sir.

LOL

by **Brantt** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 09:34:04

CalvinBall wrote:
Brantt wrote:
CalvinBall wrote:
CFP wrote:Few disturbing things in there, and yeah a few things certainly aren't normal, but I don't see any basis for impeachment.

He used his position as President to demand that a foreign leader look into a political rival over the phone and used his personal lawyer to push this in person. They attempted to cover up the actual phone call by hiding it in a place meant for national security secrets because they knew what Trump was actively doing was actually very bad.

LMAO.

My favorite part is you always respond like this yet get upset when someone doesn't take you seriously.

No, I literally laughed out loud at your interpretation of events. And the majority of the country will be as well if that's what the Dems run with.

I could care less if anyone in your little anti-Trump message board bubble takes me seriously. Just like the Russia nonsense you are going to end up crying in the end about how everything is unfair and the bad man wins again. I'm just trying to save you from yourself.

by **CalvinBall** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 09:34:51

could not care less*

by **jerseyhoya** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 09:45:58

An awful lot of the GOP defense on the whistleblower allegation so far is that they don't have first hand knowledge of a lot of what's being alleged.

I'm just a humble hack, but this seems like a poor place to plan one's flag. The substance of the call via the whistleblower was confirmed by the transcript released yesterday. The guy or gal is cooperating and I'm sure giving the names of people who DO have first hand knowledge of all this shit. At which point it either comes out or they claim executive privilege and stonewall and either outcome seems like it'd be problematic to the Trump White House. I would be surprised if they're able to keep a fully united front given the way things are evolving.

by **CalvinBall** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 09:46:24

Brantt, Moz, CFP, etc...

If what Trump doing (phone call etc) why did they try and cover it (along with a number of other calls) up? I live in a bubble so would love to get the perspective of those outside of it.

by **Grotewold** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 09:54:40

CalvinBall wrote:I live in a bubble so would love to get the perspective of those outside of it.

by **JFLNYC** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:32:25

Please stop saying there’s enough to impeach Trump. Unless and until there’s enough to convince 2/3 of the Senate to convict, there’s not enough. Period.

And, as Moz points out, impeaching him without a conviction is worse than not impeaching him at all. It will embolden him even more. He’ll say he was exonerated. The Dems will look weak, ineffective and stupid.

by **CalvinBall** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:35:39

impeachment is the bringing of charges-- which there certainly seems enough to do.

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