Politics: Promises Made, Hush Money Paid

Re: Politics: Promises Made, Hush Money Paid

Postby thephan » Tue Dec 18, 2018 14:41:08

popular opinion from the bleachers full of true believers is that Flynn has lost his F'ing mind because he stupidly refused to tell the truth about what the FBI did to him. Went on to cite the president as providing the truth that Flynn should have followed.

Went on to the second course that Flynn's counsel is corrupt, and he needs to declare that he has a right to representative counsel.

All that tells me something about the state of the state with some folks.
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Re: Politics: Promises Made, Hush Money Paid

Postby TenuredVulture » Tue Dec 18, 2018 14:42:14

Motivated reasoning is a helluva drug.
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Re: Politics: Promises Made, Hush Money Paid

Postby CalvinBall » Tue Dec 18, 2018 14:46:16

jerseyhoya wrote:The judge asking if Flynn should've been tried for treason is embarrassing


What's more embarrassing is that Flynn is big criminal that the president had in his inner circle

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Re: Politics: Promises Made, Hush Money Paid

Postby thephan » Tue Dec 18, 2018 14:46:36

threecount wrote:I do enjoy helping my friends and family members whenever they have a problem or question...


There have been some tax returns that have been tied up for years and years that will be made public if the audit just finishes... can you help some curious pals out with that? Seems like if you can help the audit conclude, then it seems that you'd be free to release them to the public!

8-)
Last edited by thephan on Tue Dec 18, 2018 14:47:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Politics: Promises Made, Hush Money Paid

Postby The Sarge » Tue Dec 18, 2018 14:47:05

Martha McSally was just appointed to McCain's old seat.

Ridiculous that she ran for the senate, lost, and still gets there anyway.
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Re: Politics: Promises Made, Hush Money Paid

Postby pacino » Tue Dec 18, 2018 14:52:25

Werthless wrote:
TenuredVulture wrote:If there's a problem, it's that the IRS seems to go after little people, because they're much less likely to be able to defend themselves rather than the Trumps of the world.

I don't get the sense that's true. I assume audits are generally heavily directed at business owners who write off a bunch of stuff. They are not going to audit people for smallish amounts unless it's an egregious mistake.

Funnily enough, last week Pro Publica broke down how the IRS was gutted and what it means.
the basics of literally collecting the money to fund our government are being gutted so we can further gut more:

The IRS conducted 675,000 fewer audits in 2017 than it did in 2010, a drop in the audit rate of 42 percent. But even those stark numbers don’t tell the whole story, say current and former IRS employees: Auditors are stretched thin, and they’re often forced to limit their investigations and move on to the next audit as quickly as they can.

Without enough staff, the IRS has slashed even basic functions. It has drastically pulled back from pursuing people who don’t bother filing their tax returns. New investigations of “nonfilers,” as they’re called, dropped from 2.4 million in 2011 to 362,000 last year. According to the inspector general for the IRS, the reduction results in at least $3 billion in lost revenue each year. Meanwhile, collections from people who do file but don’t pay have plummeted. Tax obligations expire after 10 years if the IRS doesn’t pursue them. Such expirations were relatively infrequent before the budget cuts began. In 2010, $482 million in tax debts lapsed. By 2017, according to internal IRS collection reports, that figure had risen to $8.3 billion, 17 times as much as in 2010. The IRS’ ability to investigate criminals has atrophied as well.


We are making time to go after the true tax frauds, EITC filers:
The story has been different for poor taxpayers. The IRS oversees one of the government’s largest anti-poverty programs, the earned income tax credit, which provides cash to the working poor. Under continued pressure from Republicans, the IRS has long made a priority of auditing people who receive that money, and as the IRS has shrunk, those audits have consumed even more resources, accounting for 36 percent of audits last year. The credit’s recipients — whose annual income is typically less than $20,000 — are now examined at rates similar to those who make $500,000 to $1 million a year. Only people with incomes above $1 million are examined much more frequently.


Cutting the IRS budget didn’t make sense to him. It was one of the few areas of government that had a positive return on investment. Koskinen told the Senate, “I don’t know any organization in my 20 years of experience in the private sector that has said, ‘I think I’ll take my revenue operation and starve it for funds.’”

But you wanted those organizations to succeed, Mr Koskinen.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: Politics: Promises Made, Hush Money Paid

Postby jerseyhoya » Tue Dec 18, 2018 14:53:12

The Sarge wrote:Martha McSally was just appointed to McCain's old seat.

Ridiculous that she ran for the senate, lost, and still gets there anyway.

I could see myself half trollingly making this argument if it was a Dem who lost a close Senate race & a Dem gov, but I don't understand it on the merits and it's been all over Twitter today. Is Doug Ducey's ex-Chief of Staff or Jon Kyl or any of the other unelected people more democratically legitimate to serve as an appointed Senator than someone who just narrowly lost a race?

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Re: Politics: Promises Made, Hush Money Paid

Postby pacino » Tue Dec 18, 2018 14:56:48

it's that the voters said no to her

this happened with replacing my wife (when we moved out of the district); the school board selected the guy she ousted from the board, to the dismay of a lot of people. it's not a great look for any governing board, regardless of party, to put in place someone who so recently was rejected by the people you are to represent. This is a bit like if the Democrats had put Clinton in place as Speaker of the House.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: Politics: Promises Made, Hush Money Paid

Postby TenuredVulture » Tue Dec 18, 2018 15:00:57

On Flynn: I've seen two takes. 1. The judge is trying to get Flynn to retract his plea because he's not guilty. 2. The judge is trying to get the prosecutors to go after Flynn for something more than lying to the FBI, namely serving as an agent of a foreign country as national security adviser. (Not technically treason, I guess, but still pretty serious and probably something like espionage might stick.) If the judge really did "rip into Flynn" then 2 seems more likely than 1.
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Re: Politics: Promises Made, Hush Money Paid

Postby thephan » Tue Dec 18, 2018 15:04:20

I think that you have an options #3 which was to deflate the "tricked into" line of defense by making it abundantly clear that he understood what he did was outside the law. Your second point has merit, but I think that it was more defeating the attack line that would be used against the judge.
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Re: Politics: Promises Made, Hush Money Paid

Postby swishnicholson » Tue Dec 18, 2018 15:07:38

TenuredVulture wrote:On Flynn: I've seen two takes. 1. The judge is trying to get Flynn to retract his plea because he's not guilty. 2. The judge is trying to get the prosecutors to go after Flynn for something more than lying to the FBI, namely serving as an agent of a foreign country as national security adviser. (Not technically treason, I guess, but still pretty serious and probably something like espionage might stick.) If the judge really did "rip into Flynn" then 2 seems more likely than 1.


Probably watched Maddow last night and got all aflutter.
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Re: Politics: Promises Made, Hush Money Paid

Postby thephan » Tue Dec 18, 2018 15:08:35

I'm with Jersey on this, and think that Pacino's line is more apples and oranges. The person who won the election was seated, and the close runner up who was the GOP candidate will serve out the term of the GOP senator. Would I prefer that Ducey make a more interesting choice that would have caused her to have to work to be the nominee in the next election, sure, but it is not outside the lines. I am fairly sure this was expected and predicted in the election thread.

I would imagine if Ducey seated a Democrat that all hell would rightfully break out. Besides, I am certain McSally makes Trump happy. He will take credit.
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Re: Politics: Promises Made, Hush Money Paid

Postby Bucky » Tue Dec 18, 2018 15:14:56

pacino wrote:it's that the voters said no to her

this happened with replacing my wife (when we moved out of the district); the school board selected the guy she ousted from the board, to the dismay of a lot of people. it's not a great look for any governing board, regardless of party, to put in place someone who so recently was rejected by the people you are to represent. This is a bit like if the Democrats had put Clinton in place as Speaker of the House.


Where does the notion come from that a loser in an election has been "rejected" and the voters "said no"? They said "yes" to her opponent, not "no" to her.

If anything, the voters said "no" to the party and the governor should appoint a D to fill the seat.

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Re: Politics: Promises Made, Hush Money Paid

Postby Werthless » Tue Dec 18, 2018 15:18:12

jerseyhoya wrote:
The Sarge wrote:Martha McSally was just appointed to McCain's old seat.

Ridiculous that she ran for the senate, lost, and still gets there anyway.

I could see myself half trollingly making this argument if it was a Dem who lost a close Senate race & a Dem gov, but I don't understand it on the merits and it's been all over Twitter today. Is Doug Ducey's ex-Chief of Staff or Jon Kyl or any of the other unelected people more democratically legitimate to serve as an appointed Senator than someone who just narrowly lost a race?

I am simultaneously worried (as an anti-Trump person) and amused (as someone who enjoys a chuckle at the Democratic party) that the frontrunner for the Democratic Presidential 2020 nomination is someone who lost an election 1 month ago to Ted fucking Cruz.

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Re: Politics: Promises Made, Hush Money Paid

Postby Werthless » Tue Dec 18, 2018 15:19:48

pacino wrote:
Werthless wrote:
TenuredVulture wrote:If there's a problem, it's that the IRS seems to go after little people, because they're much less likely to be able to defend themselves rather than the Trumps of the world.

I don't get the sense that's true. I assume audits are generally heavily directed at business owners who write off a bunch of stuff. They are not going to audit people for smallish amounts unless it's an egregious mistake.

Funnily enough, last week Pro Publica broke down how the IRS was gutted and what it means.
the basics of literally collecting the money to fund our government are being gutted so we can further gut more:

Thanks for the link to some facts.

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Re: Politics: Promises Made, Hush Money Paid

Postby thephan » Tue Dec 18, 2018 15:20:20

Be sure to check out Sarah's circular logic about how freer trade will pay for the wall. She balked at the idea that it would need to be a tax because it will come from increased revenues. Someone asked if they 'did the math' on this idea. It made no sense whatsoever. Also the $5B will be snagged from other existing funding of other department. I guess likely EPA, Interior, and CPFB (even though it self funds).
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Re: Politics: Promises Made, Hush Money Paid

Postby Bucky » Tue Dec 18, 2018 15:21:59

Werthless wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
The Sarge wrote:Martha McSally was just appointed to McCain's old seat.

Ridiculous that she ran for the senate, lost, and still gets there anyway.

I could see myself half trollingly making this argument if it was a Dem who lost a close Senate race & a Dem gov, but I don't understand it on the merits and it's been all over Twitter today. Is Doug Ducey's ex-Chief of Staff or Jon Kyl or any of the other unelected people more democratically legitimate to serve as an appointed Senator than someone who just narrowly lost a race?

I am simultaneously worried (as an anti-Trump person) and amused (as someone who enjoys a chuckle at the Democratic party) that the frontrunner for the Democratic Presidential 2020 nomination is someone who lost an election 1 month ago to Ted #$!&@ Cruz.



red state's gonna redstate

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Re: Politics: Promises Made, Hush Money Paid

Postby thephan » Tue Dec 18, 2018 15:22:46

She said something like Comey said that he had the FBI melt Flynn because of Trump, and they would get away with it. That a little bananas.

She kept the shirt spreader rolling with he blazing defense of Flynn as if nothing happened today. Party line that the biased FBI is out to get him.

Anyone think that the delay is also to provide a little more runway for Meuller? Get some more and hold off any chance of pardon until things tie up until the other thing finishes up.
Last edited by thephan on Tue Dec 18, 2018 16:09:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Politics: Promises Made, Hush Money Paid

Postby Werthless » Tue Dec 18, 2018 15:23:15

Nice profanity filter, Bucky.

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Re: Politics: Promises Made, Hush Money Paid

Postby The Sarge » Tue Dec 18, 2018 15:25:04

jerseyhoya wrote:
The Sarge wrote:Martha McSally was just appointed to McCain's old seat.

Ridiculous that she ran for the senate, lost, and still gets there anyway.

I could see myself half trollingly making this argument if it was a Dem who lost a close Senate race & a Dem gov, but I don't understand it on the merits and it's been all over Twitter today. Is Doug Ducey's ex-Chief of Staff or Jon Kyl or any of the other unelected people more democratically legitimate to serve as an appointed Senator than someone who just narrowly lost a race?



She ran for the senate and lost. 6 weeks late she's there anyway? Ducey completely ignored what the voters wanted.
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