Bucky wrote:Scared. Desperate. Angry.

Those reasons don't fly. They are no excuse for stupidity. Acting impetuously on emotions is the clinical definition of immaturity. It's not like this had to be a split-second decision. Folks had months to ingest the information and act properly.

So in essence the voters are reflecting the horrible immaturity of their beneficiary. The adults are few and far in between- heck, almost nonexistent- in the ruling party.

I don't disagree. I'm just saying people shit on Trump voters without attempting to understand them and their situations.

I do disagree that acting on emotion is a sign of immaturity. We all do it every day. Some of these people are scared, desperate, and angry and will act accordingly.

I think Trump is a jackass and his agenda/strategy is absurd but I can see why the people who voted for him did so based on their priorities given their current situations. The moral high-grounding that is going on ignores that factor, IMO.

td11 wrote:

PSUsarge wrote:

td11 wrote:

PSUsarge wrote:

td11 wrote:Principled conservatives who are patriots first and love their country are gonna stand by and watch this administration destroy our democracy

Right, but principled liberals also knew what they were getting with this administration and failed to prevent it before November.

It's not like Trump ran on xyz and is now doing abc. He's doing the same #$!&@ he said he would do from day one.

Wasn't responding to you

Your point is extremely boring, btw

Okay, but boring =/= wrong

no it is wrong i think. it was a failure of messaging on the part of dems that they lost this election. that HAS TO be the democratic party's takeaway. they are in the business of winning elections-- if they believe that this is the voters' fault then we are set up for failure in 2018 and 2020. the hillary campaign misread the tea leaves and campaigned in the wrong places and had a #$!&@ message, on top of which the trump campaign had the same team as the Brexit movement actively working to depress the hillary voter turnout. the people who ran the HRC campaign should never be allowed near a major dem campaign ever again

robbie mook is out there giving joint paid speeches with lewandowski, btw

No he's not. That was wrong reporting.

PSUsarge wrote:

Bucky wrote:Scared. Desperate. Angry.

Those reasons don't fly. They are no excuse for stupidity. Acting impetuously on emotions is the clinical definition of immaturity. It's not like this had to be a split-second decision. Folks had months to ingest the information and act properly.

So in essence the voters are reflecting the horrible immaturity of their beneficiary. The adults are few and far in between- heck, almost nonexistent- in the ruling party.

I don't disagree. I'm just saying people #$!&@ on Trump voters without attempting to understand them and their situations.

I do disagree that acting on emotion is a sign of immaturity. We all do it every day. Some of these people are scared, desperate, and angry and will act accordingly.

I think Trump is a jackass and his agenda/strategy is absurd but I can see why the people who voted for him did so based on their priorities given their current situations. The moral high-grounding that is going on ignores that factor, IMO.

Their current situations? On average the 'Trump voter' makes more money. Their feelings about their sitaution and their actual situation differ.

As crazy as all this is there is still maybe 30-40% of Americans are thrilled this is happening.

drsmooth wrote:the "he's doing exactly what he promised" is tired and untrue, but while we're being specific, drumpf's not doing everything he promised. Hasn't come clean with his tax returns, to name just one glaring example

Actually it's completely true. Perhaps you getting everything wrong would've given you a little humility but I guess not. The effect of jobs isn't but the promise of the things he will Implement is being followed through on.

Warszawa wrote:As crazy as all this is there is still maybe 30-40% of Americans are thrilled this is happening.

I am absolutely not in that 30-40% on most things, but this is all I'm really trying to say, tbh.

The guy won the fucking election and is carrying out at least a version of exactly what he won it on. Instead of simply telling the people who voted for him "you're wrong" it would be more constructive to understand how this all happened and figure out ways to repair the country rather than feeding further into the divide.

PSUsarge wrote:

Warszawa wrote:As crazy as all this is there is still maybe 30-40% of Americans are thrilled this is happening.

I am absolutely not in that 30-40% on most things, but this is all I'm really trying to say, tbh.

The guy won the #$!&@ election and is carrying out at least a version of exactly what he won it on. Instead of simply telling the people who voted for him "you're wrong" it would be more constructive to understand how this all happened and figure out ways to repair the country rather than feeding further into the divide.

It's also good to get them to admit that, yes, they were wrong. This happened with Bush. People forgot they voted for him because he became so unpopular. Suddenly he wasn't a real conservative.

On public transportation now. Wish me luck guys. This feeling of not beung safe is scary.

But that took a hell of a lot longer than 2 weeks to happen.

I am a firm believer that Trump is going to disappoint a lot of the people he riled up to vote for him, especially those who think the 1950s of U.S. manufacturing are coming back. However, it took a while for Bush to become unpopular, and I would expect Trump to have plenty of lead time too.

PSUsarge wrote:people shit on Trump voters without attempting to understand them and their situations.

Not really understanding the urgency to understand these voters who numbered 3 MILLION fewer than the people who voted for the candidate who lost, and who lost thanks almost entirely due to our peculiar selection process.

"Understanding" the views of a relative handful of ...unusual...voters in MI, PA, & WI seems well down the priorities list. People who genuinely "understand their situations" almost certainly did not vote for drumph. If you "genuinely" understand your situation, you would not vote for drumph, because, equipped with your capability to genuinely understand something, you could probably also identify a reckless liar/person who may be clinically mentally ill, and so would not vote for them, given the potential adverse consequences and despite misgivings about alternatives of demonstrated capacity.

Feels like, based on the weightiest facts of that outcome, what is more important to understand is the peculiarities of that process, whether or not anything is, or even should be, done about it.

They're pushing up their supreme Court pick to change the subject

drsmooth wrote:

PSUsarge wrote:people #$!&@ on Trump voters without attempting to understand them and their situations.

Not really understanding the urgency to understand these voters who numbered 3 MILLION fewer than the people who voted for the candidate who lost, and who lost thanks almost entirely due to our peculiar selection process.

"Understanding" the views of a relative handful of ...unusual...voters in MI, PA, & WI seems well down the priorities list. People who genuinely "understand their situations" almost certainly did not vote for drumph. If you "genuinely" understand your situation, you would not vote for drumph, because, equipped with your capability to genuinely understand something, you could probably also identify a reckless liar/person who may be clinically mentally ill, and so would not vote for them, given the potential adverse consequences and despite misgivings about alternatives of demonstrated capacity.

Feels like, based on the weightiest facts of that outcome, what is more important to understand is the peculiarities of that process, whether or not anything is, or even should be, done about it.

1) Okay so because 2% more people voted for HC the other 63 MILLION people shouldn't be understood?
2) Both parties knew exactly how that peculiar selection process worked. One did a way better job at playing the game than the other, who had the advantage of decades of experience.
3) Trump and his voters would get a biblical amount of shit for making the same arguments about the electrical college if the situation were reversed. Sour grapes argument, regardless of validity.
4) I do feel I genuinely understand their situations and didn't vote for Trump, so there you go. But HC offended those people repeatedly and Trump lavished them with (probably empty) promises of a return to prosperity. They chose to vote for the guy that might be a lot of bad things but seems to "have their back" when nobody else appears to vs. the woman who called them a basket of deplorables and basically ran her entire campaign on that fact that he was unfit to be President rather than trying to highlight her own fitness.

She offended them? Guess they need a safe space amirite?!

I believe it was the "basket of deplorables" comment that swung the race the other way. Yeah, I know, the other guy insulted a lot more people than that and it didn't hurt him, but there you have it.

So trump got on Twitter to slam McCain and Graham. Maybe they should switch parties.

Bucky wrote:I believe it was the "basket of deplorables" comment that swung the race the other way. Yeah, I know, the other guy insulted a lot more people than that and it didn't hurt him, but there you have it.

The funny/sad thing is that comment understood them far more than trump ever did. The 2nd half of it was a terrific analysis of understanding hard-working trump voters who could be swayed with economic solutions by democrats. People just cut off the 2nd half for their own political ends. She was a terrible campaigner and probably would've been a very good president that would've been voted out within 4 years.

pacino wrote:

drsmooth wrote:the "he's doing exactly what he promised" is tired and untrue, but while we're being specific, drumpf's not doing everything he promised. Hasn't come clean with his tax returns, to name just one glaring example

Actually it's completely true. Perhaps you getting everything wrong would've given you a little humility but I guess not. The effect of jobs isn't but the promise of the things he will Implement is being followed through on.

I literally gave you an example of one way in which he has not done something he promised - it's right there in what you quoted - and you assert otherwise anyway. Maybe try reading? Oh, i guess not.

PSUsarge wrote:1) Okay so because 2% more people voted for HC the other 63 MILLION people shouldn't be understood?

in terms of thinking about "how we lost", that's right. Because "we won", just not with a winning distribution.

2) Both parties knew exactly how that peculiar selection process worked. One did a way better job at playing the game than the other, who had the advantage of decades of experience.

I'm sorry, 80,000 votes scattered across 3 states is NOT "way better". It was better -enough better -but not WAY better.

3) Trump and his voters would get a biblical amount of shit for making the same arguments about the electrical college if the situation were reversed. Sour grapes argument, regardless of validity.

I admire your commitment to your just-so story. You denigrate mine. Oh well.

But HC offended those people repeatedly

drumpf lied to everyone, including these sensitive souls, repeatedly (just revisit almost everything he labeled a "disaster"), promised ridiculous things that any schoolchild understands cannot be done (health coverage for everybody at far lower costs), and settled a fraud suit brought by people just like them for millions rather than be publicly exposed as a fraud and a cheat.

But Hillary offended them repeatedly by referring to the racist homophobe faction of "their" mob as deplorable, a word most of them couldn't adequately define if their employment depended on it.

it's just not holding together, this understanding thing.

td11 wrote:

PSUsarge wrote:

td11 wrote:

PSUsarge wrote:

td11 wrote:Principled conservatives who are patriots first and love their country are gonna stand by and watch this administration destroy our democracy

Right, but principled liberals also knew what they were getting with this administration and failed to prevent it before November.

It's not like Trump ran on xyz and is now doing abc. He's doing the same #$!&@ he said he would do from day one.

Wasn't responding to you

Your point is extremely boring, btw

Okay, but boring =/= wrong

no it is wrong i think. it was a failure of messaging on the part of dems that they lost this election. that HAS TO be the democratic party's takeaway. they are in the business of winning elections-- if they believe that this is the voters' fault then we are set up for failure in 2018 and 2020. the hillary campaign misread the tea leaves and campaigned in the wrong places and had a shitty message, on top of which the trump campaign had the same team as the Brexit movement actively working to depress the hillary voter turnout. the people who ran the HRC campaign should never be allowed near a major dem campaign ever again

robbie mook is out there giving joint paid speeches with lewandowski, btw

that last part isn't true. same agent, though.

Seeing reports that some airports are defying the court order, this is going to get uglier