karn wrote:I thought everyone universally agreed that Drabek/Brown/Happ was just Ricciardi asking for the moon in his first offer

It is asking for the moon.

But it doesnt seem like he'd rather trade him for an attainable package over holding him.

Maybe Rube is right and he'll cave at the last minute.

But if we want Halladay, I don't know that we can risk that.

I wouldn't be shocked to see Rube agree to a deal, and then have JPR up the price. I wonder how serious he really is.

ek wrote:

stevelxa476 wrote:Gammons now saying he believes Halladay will be traded.

didn't see this yet

It was on the lead off of BBTN. He also said we are still the most likely destination.

Give Drabek, Happ, Brown, Donald

Get Halladay & Scutaro (with potential of 4 draft picks over next 2 years)

I'm satisfied.

I have full confidence the deal will get done. This is going to hurt. Prepare yourselves, everyone.

JFLNYC wrote:Give Drabek, Happ, Brown, Donald

Get Halladay & Scutaro (with potential of 4 draft picks over next 2 years)

I'm satisfied.

Gonna take more than that. They realize how valuable Scutaro is, they won't use him as a throw in. I bet 4-5 teams would bid up the price of Scutaro in a separate deal

As a lame duck I wonder how many orders Ricciardi has gotten re: this deal. It might could be that execs gave him a moon or hold edict on Halladay. At the last minute, I'd crack and do Drabek/Brown/Happ but I keep insisting to myself that that's not what it will actually take

FTN wrote:

JFLNYC wrote:Give Drabek, Happ, Brown, Donald

Get Halladay & Scutaro (with potential of 4 draft picks over next 2 years)

I'm satisfied.

Gonna take more than that. They realize how valuable Scutaro is, they won't use him as a throw in. I bet 4-5 teams would bid up the price of Scutaro in a separate deal

Marson? D'Arnaud?

CFP love your sig

Trading Marson is a no brainer to me if Manuel is as seriously into Ruiz as he appears to be. D'Arnaud is a beast in waiting that they'll have the time to wait for

PSUsarge wrote:

FTN wrote:old news sarge, try and keep up!

Haha I'm doing my best, this is madness! I only posted it b/c Stark posted it on his Twitter 6 min ago. Wasn't sure if was previously discussed. But at least that offer says that Happ isn't going to block this thing

I never thought it was Happ or Drabek, but Happ AND Drabek... the Phils are probably reluctant to give what may become 2/5 of the Jays rotation in a year or two (possibly/potentially 2 of the top 3 in that rotation). I'm not making a Drabek/Happ evaluation or prediction, just saying what the possible reasoning may be.

Phan In Phlorida wrote:

PSUsarge wrote:

FTN wrote:old news sarge, try and keep up!

Haha I'm doing my best, this is madness! I only posted it b/c Stark posted it on his Twitter 6 min ago. Wasn't sure if was previously discussed. But at least that offer says that Happ isn't going to block this thing

I never thought it was Happ or Drabek, but Happ AND Drabek... the Phils are probably reluctant to give what may become 2/5 of the Jays rotation in a year or two (possibly/potentially 2 of the top 3 in that rotation). I'm not making a Drabek/Happ evaluation or prediction, just saying what the possible reasoning may be.

Makes sense

karn wrote:I thought everyone universally agreed that Drabek/Brown/Happ was just Ricciardi asking for the moon in his first offer

To be fair, that's how negotiations usually go. But then again, that assumes dealing with someone reasonable and rational.

karn wrote:Trading Marson is a no brainer to me if Manuel is as seriously into Ruiz as he appears to be. D'Arnaud is a beast in waiting that they'll have the time to wait for

Albeit in the minority here, I'm actually a little reluctant to deal Marson, but that's only because I have a sneaking suspiscion that the Phils will need a starting catcher in the next year or two (depending on how Quest for WFC II pans out).

I'm actually feeling comfortable with it including Happ and Drabek but I don't want to see Brown go as well in such a deal. I'm optimistic that Amaro won't let Brown and Drabek go together which would make me happy if true (because I do think the Jays will cave and something somewhat less than what they've asked for).

If the counter the Phillies put out there of Carassco, Donald, Taylor and Happ was flattly rejected by the Blue Jays. I would move on. That is 4 major league ready players today. In fact All four of them would be in the Majors on a team like the Blue Jays and starting immediatly.
The Blue Jays are not serious about Moving Halladay if they flatly denied that deal

BigB wrote:If the counter the Phillies put out there of Carassco, Donald, Taylor and Happ was flattly rejected by the Blue Jays. I would move on. That is 4 major league ready players today. In fact All four of them would be in the Majors on a team like the Blue Jays and starting immediatly.
The Blue Jays are not serious about Moving Halladay if they flatly denied that deal

It's all Ricciardi. If he makes a deal where the pundits can say "he didn't even get either of their two best prospects", he won't do it.

I agree with the sentiment here in that it doesn't seem like Ricciardi and the Blue Jays goals are aligned. He's got his eye on his reputation and his next employer.

BigB wrote:If the counter the Phillies put out there of Carassco, Donald, Taylor and Happ was flattly rejected by the Blue Jays. I would move on. That is 4 major league ready players today. In fact All four of them would be in the Majors on a team like the Blue Jays and starting immediatly.
The Blue Jays are not serious about Moving Halladay if they flatly denied that deal

It's not bad but I could see why they turned it down. Carrasco kinda blows right now; Happ isn't really as good as he's been. Taylor is great but they want the younger player in Brown. Nothing too bad with Donald though he's struggled this year, hasn't he?

I'm in the boat with "It's 4 MLB ready players, how could they turn it down?"

Ricciardi played baseball for two years in the New York Mets minor league system as an infielder. He played for the Mets A-class league affiliates in Little Falls in 1980 and Shelby in 1981, finishing his playing career with a batting average below .200.

no wonder...

My question is ...out of Drabek, Brown, Taylor,Donald, Carrasco and Marson, where would these guys slot in the Jays prospect rankings?
I'm not going to include Happ because he's 7-1 in the ML already. I know theres going to be a regression but he's still going to be a solid #3.

I mean Halladay is right up with Timmay and Greinke on my list of zomg pitchers but what leverage do the Jays have? They are going to settle for less if JPR's smugness wins out. Then again I don't know if he realizes the level of smugness that Rube can reach. Its a classic smug off...hide the kids

I wonder if they've entertained the fact of Carrasco maybe becoming a top back end bullpen guy. He constantly seems like he's impatiently waiting to get back on the spaceship. Maybe if he comes in for 1 inning he'll just dominate knowing he can get back to being intergalactic. I think he could end up being a decent closer and cheap. Its not like the jays would spend a ton of money on a closer *cough* BJ Ryan *cough*.