They've got a valuable asset that's rapidly losing worth. RAPIDLY. They need to make this happen. captain.

karn wrote:I'm with Ed (more or less). I'll give them any four or five but no Drabek or Brown

If thats the case then the Yankees can just give them Joba plus some crap

My guess is Happ, Drabek, Marson and Donald if it's only Halladay in the deal.

cshort wrote:My guess is Happ, Drabek, Marson and Donald if it's only Halladay in the deal.

What about if Scutaro, Millar or McDonald are involved? Happ, Drabek, Brown, Donald?

cshort wrote:My guess is Happ, Drabek, Marson and Donald if it's only Halladay in the deal.

One legit high ceiling prospect and 3 serviceable major leaguers. I wouldn't trade Halladay for that. I'd rather take my chances on the draft choices and fill in the gaps with other serviceable major leaguers.

jeff2sf wrote:No. No. No.

I'm not doing it on principle. I might swap Carrasco for Happ (Even if I like Carrasco more). Come on people, we're in the driver seat. Not him. We HAVE a MUCH better BATNA than Toronto. Like much much better.

Don't lose your nerve now. As Costanza said, we're negotiating, ne go ti a ting.

As I recall, Costanza held out for less money.

I don't want to give up Marson because I don't think Ruiz is a long-term answer, but I wouldn't hold up a deal because of him, so if you want to substitute him for D'Arnaud, go ahead.

Taylor and Brown....it doesn't seem like the Jays want OFs in return but they'd rather have Brown because he's at least 3 years away.

Donald....it seems like a lock that he'll be part of any deal because he's blocked in the majors and Toronto needs a SS.

It comes down to the pitchers involved. The Phils won't give up Drabek AND Happ, but they'll give up one of them. I'd rather give up Happ because I don't know how long his run of luck will continue. Carrasco....it'll be tough to give him up but if it means keeping Drabek, you have to do it.

1 major-league ready pitcher
1 pitcher that could be a #4/#5 already because of all their injured starters
1 shortstop that could start next year
1 catcher

That should be enough.

CSN poll right now: would you give up Drabek, Happ and Brown.....58% of Phils fans said no....

JFLNYC wrote:

cshort wrote:My guess is Happ, Drabek, Marson and Donald if it's only Halladay in the deal.

One legit high ceiling prospect and 3 serviceable major leaguers. I wouldn't trade Halladay for that. I'd rather take my chances on the draft choices and fill in the gaps with other serviceable major leaguers.

Serviceable major leaguers that will be payroll friendly for a number of years until the Blue Jays get out from under some bad contracts.

Just assuming Toronto has no leverage assumes they are rational actors in this whole thing. Remember, their GM gave Vernon Wells one of the worst contracts in history. He's not a rational actor in this entire greek tragedy.

While it may be nice to say "we should keep Brown and Drabek and Taylor and Monasterios", you have to give up talent to get talent. If this was for a second tier guy like Bedard, I'd be in complete agreement. But its for 1.5 years of one of the best pitchers in baseball. And hes not making crazy demands to waive his NTC or asking for the moon. You dont worry about post 2010 until the time comes.

You make this deal and get this guy. Then you work on signing your draft picks to replenish what you just traded away.

Taylor or Drabek or Brown, Happ, Carrasco, Donald/Marson, "B" level prospect.

That's my offer. I think it's fair and I think most people here would be okay with it. Toronto guys a top tier prospect, a ready made pitcher, another top pitching prospect and a solid infielder or catcher who could be on the team right now.

FTN wrote:Just assuming Toronto has no leverage assumes they are rational actors in this whole thing. Remember, their GM gave Vernon Wells one of the worst contracts in history. He's not a rational actor in this entire greek tragedy.

While it may be nice to say "we should keep Brown and Drabek and Taylor and Monasterios", you have to give up talent to get talent. If this was for a second tier guy like Bedard, I'd be in complete agreement. But its for 1.5 years of one of the best pitchers in baseball. And hes not making crazy demands to waive his NTC or asking for the moon. You dont worry about post 2010 until the time comes.

You make this deal and get this guy. Then you work on signing your draft picks to replenish what you just traded away.

I'm honestly not as far apart from you guys as it may appear, but I'm still more than comfortable with my position, and I think I end up with the same guy for less.

FTN wrote:You make this deal and get this guy. Then you work on signing your draft picks to replenish what you just traded away.

Right. You get the 2 picks from Halladay and if you give up these pitching prospects, hopefully it ensures Inch and Colvin signing from this years class.

Wow, The attitude change that has occurred on this board is exactly what JPR is hoping is occurring in the Phillies front Office. When this was first announced everyone seemed to think it was way too steep and now we are slowly starting to crack. I think it is steep but fair and would do the deal. The problem is this is his opening offer and I think the Phillies are doing the right thing by trying to wait him out.

cshort wrote:

JFLNYC wrote:Serviceable major leaguers that will be payroll friendly for a number of years until the Blue Jays get out from under some bad contracts.

They have value, to be sure. But not enough value to trade your franchise player to get them.

PTOITWCFTPP wrote:

FTN wrote:You make this deal and get this guy. Then you work on signing your draft picks to replenish what you just traded away.

Right. You get the 2 picks from Halladay and if you give up these pitching prospects, hopefully it ensures Inch and Colvin signing from this years class.

Why does everyone assume we're not going to resign Halladay?

PTOITWCFTPP wrote:

FTN wrote:You make this deal and get this guy. Then you work on signing your draft picks to replenish what you just traded away.

Right. You get the 2 picks from Halladay and if you give up these pitching prospects, hopefully it ensures Inch and Colvin signing from this years class.

I'd say it almost certainly makes it less likely they sign. Doesn't mean they won't, just less likely. Not a reason not to make the deal either, but again, less likely.

cshort wrote:

PTOITWCFTPP wrote:

FTN wrote:You make this deal and get this guy. Then you work on signing your draft picks to replenish what you just traded away.

Right. You get the 2 picks from Halladay and if you give up these pitching prospects, hopefully it ensures Inch and Colvin signing from this years class.

Why does everyone assume we're not going to resign Halladay?

Win-win either way.

cshort wrote:

PTOITWCFTPP wrote:

FTN wrote:You make this deal and get this guy. Then you work on signing your draft picks to replenish what you just traded away.

Right. You get the 2 picks from Halladay and if you give up these pitching prospects, hopefully it ensures Inch and Colvin signing from this years class.

Why does everyone assume we're not going to resign Halladay?

Hes talking about guys we just drafted in June.

The two picks if Halladay walks have to be considered in his future value. I hope he would re-sign, but its protection in case he doesnt

ek wrote:I don't see Toronto budging from this Drabek AND Happ stance.

Which is fine, as long as we keep Brown and Taylor.

FTN wrote:

cshort wrote:

PTOITWCFTPP wrote:

FTN wrote:You make this deal and get this guy. Then you work on signing your draft picks to replenish what you just traded away.

Right. You get the 2 picks from Halladay and if you give up these pitching prospects, hopefully it ensures Inch and Colvin signing from this years class.

Why does everyone assume we're not going to resign Halladay?

Hes talking about guys we just drafted in June.

The two picks if Halladay walks have to be considered in his future value. I hope he would re-sign, but its protection in case he doesnt

I know, I just don't like the negative vibes