dajafi wrote:So long as Ruben has the last shot, I'm confident we'll either get him or that the price anything team pays will be something most of us consider excessive.

Well, one aspect of the story I related is that the seller was so disgusted with the original "buyer's" haggling, they didn't even go back to him when they got the other offer. You always have to worry about grossing out the other party. And, believe me, the seller in this case was not some private party nut job. It was a major corporation with revenues and assets to make a MLB franchise look like the corner deli.

And if Happ turns out to be a dealbreaker, then turns into Kyle Kendrick, ill never forgive Rube

realken:

Rosenthal: All these #Phillies fans keep asking me, "We getting #Halladay?" Wish I had an answer! Gut still is yes.

Yeah, in that case it sounds like the haggling grew tiresome. This is something with a timeline, JPR wants to make a deal now b/c the value goes down after July 31. I think he just wants to get the best right now

dajafi wrote:

JFLNYC wrote:

The Dude wrote:The other thing with being the favorite is that you can wait around and let teams make their best offer, which still won't be as good as what you can offer, and try and drive the price down a bit

That assumes the Phils are the favorite because of what they've actually offered and I don't think that's the case. The Phils are the favorite because of what they could offer (and their financial ability, of course).

If the Phils don't use their assets as necessary, their "favorite" status only makes the failure to get the deal done more bitter.

Serious question: is there a price you wouldn't pay for Halladay? What would be too much?

I don't think there is a "too much" scenario for me at this point. I can taste repeat and Doc gives us the edge. So if its Drabek, Happ, Taylor, Brown, Donald and Carrasco... I might still do it. It's more than is fair -- but who cares if we have another parade this year or next or both?

Our core of Rollins, Ultey, Howard, Vic and Werth -- are all just under approaching or just arriving passing 30. This team will be good next year too! Ibanez more than repalced Burrell. That's 6 starters that produce a lot of runs. 3B and C have been seen as weak, but enough around that corp.

But if you can't stop the other guys, if you give up 5 runs in the first half of the 1st inning... Halladay is the real thing. Prospects come and go and few every really pan out... few...

They can have Myers or Moyer or Chan Ho if they want him?!

Watching lopez labour makes me want halladay real bad.

dajafi wrote:

JFLNYC wrote:

The Dude wrote:The other thing with being the favorite is that you can wait around and let teams make their best offer, which still won't be as good as what you can offer, and try and drive the price down a bit

That assumes the Phils are the favorite because of what they've actually offered and I don't think that's the case. The Phils are the favorite because of what they could offer (and their financial ability, of course).

If the Phils don't use their assets as necessary, their "favorite" status only makes the failure to get the deal done more bitter.

Serious question: is there a price you wouldn't pay for Halladay? What would be too much?

That's a good and fair question. Honestly, I haven't considered it, though, because I'd be willing to pay what they've requested (Drabek, Brown & Happ), if necessary. So I haven't had to consider my limit.

From my POV, in that scenario we get to keep Taylor and Knapp, plus a number of other good prospects (Donald, Marson, Bastardo, the guys in the lower minors like Gose, etc.) When you factor in the draft picks, I just think we're in great shape going forward even if we meet JPR's demands.

My limit is pretty high. really, whatever it takes. but if that offer that they put forward to the phils really is their highest price, I'm fine with it. absolutely fine.

Wizlah wrote:Watching lopez labour makes me want halladay real bad.

Watching Lopez labor just makes me want Pedro. Halladay will be the cherry on top.

That's a solid answer, J (even if I disagree ). I'm not as ready to put a value on the picks, which seem to be a big part of your calculus, because I think it's no worse than even money the Phils would extend Halladay; whether that's ultimately a good or a bad thing, who's to say.

I guess my bias is that I want to keep the guys whom I can most easily envision in clear roles for the Phils--so that's Marson (backup catcher next spring, starter by the end of next season or 2011), Drabek (in the rotation sometime next year), and Brown (up sometime in 2011).

So it annoys me that the Jays want Drabek and Brown over Knapp (who's so far away from the majors that I don't have a good sense of who he might become) and Taylor (who's so close that it seems like his first couple cheap years might be wasted on the bench or languishing at AAA). Arguably you could throw Marson vs. D'Arnaud in there too, as I feel like the rumors have the Jays more interested in Lou than Travis.

dajafi wrote:That's a solid answer, J (even if I disagree ). I'm not as ready to put a value on the picks, which seem to be a big part of your calculus, because I think it's no worse than even money the Phils would extend Halladay; whether that's ultimately a good or a bad thing, who's to say.

I guess my bias is that I want to keep the guys whom I can most easily envision in clear roles for the Phils--so that's Marson (backup catcher next spring, starter by the end of next season or 2011), Drabek (in the rotation sometime next year), and Brown (up sometime in 2011).

So it annoys me that the Jays want Drabek and Brown over Knapp (who's so far away from the majors that I don't have a good sense of who he might become) and Taylor (who's so close that it seems like his first couple cheap years might be wasted on the bench or languishing at AAA). Arguably you could throw Marson vs. D'Arnaud in there too, as I feel like the rumors have the Jays more interested in Lou than Travis.

Thanks and I respect your view. It occurs to me that it's a shame the Jays have a logjam in the OF. If they didn't, Taylor would be ideal for them, especially now that he's starting to excel at LHV. But, that's the problem. They don't want an OF who is too ready because he'll be blocked for them, just as he is for us.

There is a silver lining to all of this. The team, as constructed, can still win the division. Against the odds last year, we won a WS with a modest rotation.

If we make no trades, we still have a 1 in 8 shot of repeating + one of the best farm systems in the game

FTN wrote:There is a silver lining to all of this. The team, as constructed, can still win the division. Against the odds last year, we won a WS with a modest rotation.

If we make no trades, we still have a 1 in 8 shot of repeating + one of the best farm systems in the game

Agreed. And Cliff Lee is still out there and, hopefully, Rube is using that as leverage. But it still would be tough to swallow if we don't get Halladay. But, after 45 years of being a Phillies fan, I'll get over it.

Well, they have a jam in that they have those two huge contracts--though I think Rios is movable. Their other OFs are Jose Bautista and someone named Joe Inglett, a minor league lifer type. And they've got Adam Lind, sort of an OF, DH'ing, and Travis Snider presumably on the way.

I guess that's sort of a logjam, but not like having three all-stars out there.

JFLNYC wrote:They don't want an OF who is too ready because he'll be blocked for them, just as he is for us.

explain to me why taylor is blocked in either place. victorino could be traded. jose bautista is expendable.

Maybe you're right. I thought Lind was playing more LF than DH'ing, but the opposite is true. That gives me a bit more hope.

ek wrote:everyone's favorite Keith Law doesn't think we have a package to suffice Toronto

even though they just gave a list of prospects they said they'd take. top notch reporting

ek wrote:everyone's favorite Keith Law doesn't think we have a package to suffice Toronto

I'm shocked, shocked to hear this.

If they dont make this deal because of Happ, I'm going to burn down the fucking stadium

ek wrote:everyone's favorite Keith Law doesn't think we have a package to suffice Toronto

is he trying to say all the rumors out there about the phillies turning down the jays are false?