Halladay is on the block, fyi

by **dajafi** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 15:55:58

Something else we've not really touched upon: Wade, who was Amaro's first real mentor and whom he spent more time working with that Gillick, was notoriously averse to dealing prospects. As in he pretty much never did it. For the most part, this worked out well--no Utley/Madson for Zito. And he's a money guy (as Wade was), so the fact that not only would a deal lose the Phils the talents of Drabek/Taylor/whoever, but also would likely mean more expensive (and very possibly less productive) veterans in the places they might have assumed is one of which I'm sure he's very mindful.

I don't think this means he'd be unwilling to trade top talent, but it does make me think his starting offer is probably much closer to something like Donald/Savery/D'Arnaud than Drabek/Taylor/Knapp, and that he might even mean it.

by **thephan** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 16:08:20

I don't know brother DaJafi, Amaro has done things that Wade would never have done so far. I honestly expected the worst from ol'Rube, but all I am is confused by what he has done and how it has worked. Would Wade even consider Pedro with the rumor of a bank robbery? He might have sent the local scout, but no deal. Would he have had the stones to go after and land Ibanez? Honestly, Wade is smart enough to know we would have marched on the Phillies offices with torches in hand, and of course, Ibanez would have been the worst signing in the history of signings if Wade did it. How about the idea that Wade would have cut Jenkins, which I tend to think of as still having Jeff platooning somewhere, which also means that Werth would likely be else where.

My point is that I just don't know what to do with Rube or how to guess his next move. He is not shy at throwing money.

by **dajafi** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 16:22:58

thephan wrote:I don't know brother DaJafi, Amaro has done things that Wade would never have done so far. I honestly expected the worst from ol'Rube, but all I am is confused by what he has done and how it has worked. Would Wade even consider Pedro with the rumor of a bank robbery? He might have sent the local scout, but no deal. Would he have had the stones to go after and land Ibanez? Honestly, Wade is smart enough to know we would have marched on the Phillies offices with torches in hand, and of course, Ibanez would have been the worst signing in the history of signings if Wade did it. How about the idea that Wade would have cut Jenkins, which I tend to think of as still having Jeff platooning somewhere, which also means that Werth would likely be else where.

My point is that I just don't know what to do with Rube or how to guess his next move. He is not shy at throwing money.

I'm not saying that he's Ed's duplicate by any stretch--I agree with you that he's more of a risk taker, and (thank goodness) more cognizant of the concept of sunk costs. Just that on this particular question, I find it plausible--especially with the report that the Jays "don't like the prospects the Phillies are offering"--that he learned something of value from Wade.

by **kruker** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 16:41:33

Buster, what are the chances the Phils go all out and snag Holliday? As a Phillies fan, I wouldn’t mind seeing Drabek and some prospects go, but giving up Happ in any deal will just create another whole in the lineup, even if Holliday is a top 3 in the league pitcher.
— ryan

Posted to Buster Olney on the Freakonomics blog. Jesus man, try some proof reading.

And this is good too:

What do you think of Halladay for A-Rod?
— Cheryl

by **cshort** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 16:48:05

Parents really need to keep their kidz off the puter.

by **Grotewold** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 16:48:44

What do you think of Halladay for A-Rod?
— Cheryl

He does seem to like blondes

by **cshort** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 16:51:26

Grotewold wrote:
What do you think of Halladay for A-Rod?
— Cheryl

He does seem to like blondes

Manly ones at that

by **VFB** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 16:51:36

BUSTR, WUT R TEH CHANCEZ TEH FILS GO ALL OUT AN SNAG HOLLIDAI? AS FILLIEZ FAN, I WOULDN’T MIND SEEIN DRABEK AN SUM PROSPECTS GO, BUT GIVIN UP HAPP IN ANY DEAL WILL JUS CREATE ANOTHR WHOLE IN DA LINEUP, EVEN IF HOLLIDAI IZ TOP 3 IN DA LEAGUE PITCHR.
— RYAN

Website · by **Wolfgang622** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 16:57:44

dajafi wrote:
thephan wrote:I don't know brother DaJafi, Amaro has done things that Wade would never have done so far. I honestly expected the worst from ol'Rube, but all I am is confused by what he has done and how it has worked. Would Wade even consider Pedro with the rumor of a bank robbery? He might have sent the local scout, but no deal. Would he have had the stones to go after and land Ibanez? Honestly, Wade is smart enough to know we would have marched on the Phillies offices with torches in hand, and of course, Ibanez would have been the worst signing in the history of signings if Wade did it. How about the idea that Wade would have cut Jenkins, which I tend to think of as still having Jeff platooning somewhere, which also means that Werth would likely be else where.

My point is that I just don't know what to do with Rube or how to guess his next move. He is not shy at throwing money.

I'm not saying that he's Ed's duplicate by any stretch--I agree with you that he's more of a risk taker, and (thank goodness) more cognizant of the concept of sunk costs. Just that on this particular question, I find it plausible--especially with the report that the Jays "don't like the prospects the Phillies are offering"--that he learned something of value from Wade.

I like this line of thought, and I also like what should now be obvious - that Amaro, on the one hand, has not overplayed his hand by offering the best first, but, on the other hand, has let it be known through various channels that the Phillies are in it to win it, so to speak. Even if they do not end up with Halladay, I am confident it will not be for a lack of effort. Thanks to Zolecki, I am feeling even better than I was that Halladay will be a Phillies. I remember, in 2005, Ed Wade saying how reluctant he was to give up what he gave up for Wagner, but that ultimately he had to have a conversation with himself and realize that this was an elite closer being discussed. So much the more so for Halladay. The only things I wouldn't do for Halladay are Drabek/Taylor/Brown or Taylor/Brown/Knapp; short of that, it's a good enough deal for this team as currently constructed, and I am confident 2/4 of Drabek, Taylor, Knapp, and Brown with Donald and a lesser arm gets this deal done, because the Blue Jays won't do better than that later (I am strongly inclined to keep Marson now thanks to the current catching situation and the fact that Donald is blocked here anyway, but if it were Marson rather than Donald, I'd still do it).

Rube seems a wheeler-dealer to me, so I think he's come to the same conclusion. Besides, how could he turn down the opportunity for smugging up the joint that a "Roy Halladay is a Phillies press conference" would afford?

by **JFLNYC** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 17:29:24

Latest on Scott Rolen is that the Red Sox may have interest in the Toronto third basemen. This according to Jeff Blair of The Globe and Mail. Boston is dealing with concerns over the health of Mike Lowell, who's on the DL with a sore hip.

Hmmm. . .

by **Philly the Kid** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 19:26:38

""For me, I've never been real worried about stats, numbers, ERAs and things like that," he said. "I mean, everybody has got to play in the same park. So your chances of getting a couple of home runs are as good as giving them up. Especially as a starting pitcher, I just try to give my team a chance. You can do that with a 2.00 ERA or a 5.00 ERA. I think it's all the same."

?? just trying to say nothing while seeming to say something? ??

If its all the same to you Roy, if you become a Phillies, let's go with the 2.00 not the 5.00 , k? thnx!

by **Phan In Phlorida** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 19:30:28

kruker wrote:
Buster, what are the chances the Phils go all out and snag Holliday? As a Phillies fan, I wouldn’t mind seeing Drabek and some prospects go, but giving up Happ in any deal will just create another whole in the lineup, even if Holliday is a top 3 in the league pitcher.
— ryan

To be fair... that Happ kid can really rake. It'll be hard to replace a bat like his.

by **Monkeyboy** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 20:01:02

Bakestar wrote:Rocketmail was pretty bad about filtering out profane user names, my friend secured some of the more hilarious ones.

I have a friend with the email "unprotectedsex@."

by **CrashburnAlley** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 20:03:55

Monkeyboy wrote:
Bakestar wrote:Rocketmail was pretty bad about filtering out profane user names, my friend secured some of the more hilarious ones.

I have a friend with the email "unprotectedsex@."

does he have viruses

by **Monkeyboy** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 20:26:45

CrashburnAlley wrote:
Monkeyboy wrote:
Bakestar wrote:Rocketmail was pretty bad about filtering out profane user names, my friend secured some of the more hilarious ones.

I have a friend with the email "unprotectedsex@."

does he have viruses

Maybe. He has a desk job during the day and is a metal band at night. He has many secrets.

by **Coste2Coste** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 20:28:31

From John Heyman's twitter

i like the phillies' pedro signing. he's worth a risk, especially in the NL. #phils will still try for halladay.

by **Monkeyboy** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 20:42:56

Goodbye Happ.

by **FTN** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 20:43:55

My guess is that Heyman will break the trade when/if it happens. As much of a douche as he can be sometimes, hes the most connected guy in the MSM

by **JFLNYC** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 21:12:32

Halladay remains a hot topic of conversation, and he will through the July 31 non-waiver Trade Deadline. The issue with the Phillies is not Halladay's contract, which runs through 2010. It is prospects. Who do the Blue Jays want? And who are the Phillies willing to give up?

"There are some untouchables," Amaro said. "But again, each situation will make you think how to handle those situations. There are some guys I absolutely would not want to trade. We're fortunate that we've built more depth in our system to be able to have our discussions."

But "would not want to trade" certainly is different than "will not trade."

So are there players Amaro absolutely will not deal?

"There are guys we will not trade," Amaro said.

by **traderdave** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 21:22:29

As much as I expected the worst from Rube he has really impressed me thus far. I just hope he doesn't do something stupid and trade the entire farm for Doc but that seems pretty unlikely from the things he is saying.

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Halladay is on the block, fyi