Halladay is on the block, fyi

by **Blur** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 14:39:32

It appears the Blue Jays desperately need a catcher. Marson or D'Arnaud would definitely have to be included. I don't know enough about D'Arnaud to decide which one of the two I'd rather trade.

by **dajafi** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 16:05:48

Thinking about my polite disagreement with mozart the other day, I asked a question in Kevin Goldstein's BP chat this afternoon:

jeffstoned ((Brooklyn)): It seems to me that in prospects-for-veteran trades such as the one Ricciardi might be contemplating for Roy Halladay, teams look more for potential aces (Kyle Drabek) than potential all-star regulars (Michael Taylor). One, do you think this is an accurate observation, and two, do you think it's a wise philosophy? (Also: Zen Arcade ranks among humankind's greatest accomplishments.)

Kevin Goldstein: I do think that's accurate. When you hear people talk about Philly untouchables (even though it's all speculation) it's Drabek always, and even Knapp sometimes, but never Taylor. Aces are harder to find that All-Star outfielders, and I think that's the big difference.

Of course, the other putative untouchable is D. Brown, but (obviously) I think his larger point is correct.

Otherwise, he'd earlier dissed "Zen Arcade" when asked about his favorite Husker Du record, so I felt I had to step up.

by **Blur** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 16:10:42

dajafi wrote:Thinking about my polite disagreement with mozart the other day, I asked a question in Kevin Goldstein's BP chat this afternoon:

jeffstoned ((Brooklyn)): It seems to me that in prospects-for-veteran trades such as the one Ricciardi might be contemplating for Roy Halladay, teams look more for potential aces (Kyle Drabek) than potential all-star regulars (Michael Taylor). One, do you think this is an accurate observation, and two, do you think it's a wise philosophy? (Also: Zen Arcade ranks among humankind's greatest accomplishments.)

Kevin Goldstein: I do think that's accurate. When you hear people talk about Philly untouchables (even though it's all speculation) it's Drabek always, and even Knapp sometimes, but never Taylor. Aces are harder to find that All-Star outfielders, and I think that's the big difference.

Of course, the other putative untouchable is D. Brown, but (obviously) I think his larger point is correct.

Otherwise, he'd earlier dissed "Zen Arcade" when asked about his favorite Husker Du record, so I felt I had to step up.

Agreed. Not on Zen Arcade, however.

I'm more of a Sugar fan. IMO, Copper Blue is Bob Mould's best work.

by **JFLNYC** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 16:14:54

Blur wrote:It appears the Blue Jays desperately need a catcher.

Nonsense. They've got Rod Barajas! :-D

by **kruker** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 19:51:25

How much to our advantage is it that we don't have a pre-arb superstar right now? That's a funny question to ask, but here's why I'm thinking about it. Reports seem to be that any Dodgers deal for Halladay has to start with Kershaw. Of course, giving up Kershaw is almost certainly not an option that would ever get seriously discussed by the Dodgers. If the Jays are firm on needing him in a deal, then no serious discussion will occur between the two teams. In this sense, our not having Kershaw or someone of his ilk allows us to offer lower end talent (to whatever degree, you can make your own opinion) without having to negotiate down.

That puts us in a position of having to offer more quantity than a team with a pre-arb superstar/potential superstar type, however I think this does give us an advantage in the sense that our top line deal will still be negotiated down a step or two, whereas the Dodgers (all else being equal) would have to make a bigger leap down in order to get at a deal comparable to ours. While negotiating down to a deal like ours, the Dodgers would have the added pressure of not scaring the Jays away by negotiating too much, a condition where the Jays, even if the deals were identical in terms of talent and quantity, would feel they lost the negotiations because of how much further down they negotiated with the Dodgers compared to the Phillies.

Obviously every team would prefer to have that special pre-arb type of talent, but this might be an instance where it is advantageous to not have someone like that on your roster.

by **FTN** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 00:09:37

Anthony (NY)

Any way the Yanks can get Halladay without giving up Montero, Hughes or Joba. Maybe a Melky, Zachary Mcallister, Mark Melancon, Sergio Mitro, other minor leaguer. would that work?

Jim Callis (2:46 PM)

No.

Is there a Yankeesrefugees board? If so, this guy must be a mod

by **FTN** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 00:10:20

Pete (Philly)

Would you trade Drabek, Brown, Marson and Donald for Halladay?
Jim Callis (2:50 PM)

If I could sign Halladay long-term, yes. That would position the Phillies as the team to beat in the NL East (and the whole NL for that matter) for a while. Without a long-term deal, I'd still have to think about it. I'd hate to give up all that young talent for 1 1/2 years of Halladay, but the deal would still give me a great chance to win another World Series in the next two years.

by **Blur** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 00:29:47

There's absolutely no way that I give the Jays, both, Drabek and Brown. Drabek and Taylor, perhaps.

by **lowcountry** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 01:15:36

Remember, Red, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies.

by **jerseyhoya** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 01:19:39

lowcountry wrote:
Remember, Red, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

by **bleh** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 01:25:48

FTN wrote:
Pete (Philly)

Would you trade Drabek, Brown, Marson and Donald for Halladay?
Jim Callis (2:50 PM)

If I could sign Halladay long-term, yes. That would position the Phillies as the team to beat in the NL East (and the whole NL for that matter) for a while. Without a long-term deal, I'd still have to think about it. I'd hate to give up all that young talent for 1 1/2 years of Halladay, but the deal would still give me a great chance to win another World Series in the next two years.

I'd think the 2 year deal is a plus and not a minus. It's not like they're going to get a huge discount for signing him now rather than in 2 years. Either way it's going to cost like $20 million per year. And you know the Phils don't like giving long contracts to pitchers. If anything, Halladay insisting on a big extension might kill the trade.

also, what crystal ball are people looking into to know that Dominic Brown is so much better than Michael Taylor? Looking at their stats makes me scratch my head.

by **FTN** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 02:58:21

Brown is 2 years younger, which can't be understated. And the FSL is one of the toughest hitting leagues in all of the minors. Brown is more athletic, a better baserunner, and a could play a good CF, but will likely end up in RF long term, same as Taylor, or Taylor may end up in LF.

They have similar numbers, but age and league context are big issues here.

by **PSUPhilliesPhan** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 09:13:06

FTN wrote:
Pete (Philly)

Would you trade Drabek, Brown, Marson and Donald for Halladay?
Jim Callis (2:50 PM)

If I could sign Halladay long-term, yes. That would position the Phillies as the team to beat in the NL East (and the whole NL for that matter) for a while. Without a long-term deal, I'd still have to think about it. I'd hate to give up all that young talent for 1 1/2 years of Halladay, but the deal would still give me a great chance to win another World Series in the next two years.

If they made a trade like this would it make them more likely to sign the draft picks to restock the system or less likely because of the increase in payroll?

by **BigEd76** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:13:08

Cashman doesn't want to talk about Halladay (and he can't anyway)

Gotta love the attitude of "our 5th starter has injury problems....let's replace him with a top-3 ace"

by **JFLNYC** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:01:43

Latest from RealKen:

One general manager says flatly that the Angels have "zero chance" to obtain Halladay by using only players from their farm system. Meanwhile, a number of the Angels' young major leaguers — second baseman Howie Kendrick, shortstop Erick Aybar and infielder Brandon Wood — no longer have the trade value they once did.

The Cardinals face a similar challenge in the Halladay sweepstakes. While Halladay no doubt would love to be reunited with former Jays teammate Chris Carpenter — their wives also are close — other teams simply have more to offer.

The Phillies actually are not a guess — their farm system is deep, they discussed A.J. Burnett with the Jays last season and club officials already are brainstorming on how to make a Halladay trade happen. One hitch: Class A right-hander Jason Knapp, a potential trade chip, went on the disabled list Wednesday with "shoulder fatigue," according to the Asbury Park Press.

The Yankees seem less likely to pursue Halladay, but I'll believe they're out when the pitcher lands with another team. The Yankees were not publicly "in" on free agents such as Johnny Damon and Mark Teixeira until the moment they signed them.

by **kruker** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:08:20

JFLNYC wrote:Latest from RealKen:

One general manager says flatly that the Angels have "zero chance" to obtain Halladay by using only players from their farm system. Meanwhile, a number of the Angels' young major leaguers — second baseman Howie Kendrick, shortstop Erick Aybar and infielder Brandon Wood — no longer have the trade value they once did.

JUSTICE

by **S2D** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:22:18

JFLNYC wrote:Latest from RealKen:

The Cardinals face a similar challenge in the Halladay sweepstakes. While Halladay no doubt would love to be reunited with former Jays teammate Chris Carpenter — their wives also are close — other teams simply have more to offer.

Do they swap?

by **karn** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:33:58

The other thing is that taking care of Knapp like that probably looks GOOD to Toronto IN that they're seeing Amaro not trying to hide any even minor injury to a prospect

Website · by **Wolfgang622** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:37:44

We need a Roy Halladay Countdown Clock, because this is so happening.

by **BigEd76** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:38:27

T-15 days, 3 hours

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Halladay is on the block, fyi