Halladay is on the block, fyi

by **philliesphhan** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 19:14:28

Philly the Kid wrote:Here's a question --

If the choice is giving up Drabek or JA what do you do?

From what I'm reading here most would say, "no brainer, keep Drabek his upside is huge..." BUT if he's not going to pitch this year for whatever reason (assume he isn't ready) then don't we need JA AND Roy to make it to WFC?

No. Halladay/Hamels/Blanton/Pedro/Moyer is still good. Keeping Happ would be nice, but if they said "We'll take Happ or Drabek, your pick?" We certainly shouldn't say Drabek.

by **phatj** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 19:16:17

Philly the Kid wrote:From what I'm reading here most would say, "no brainer, keep Drabek his upside is huge..." BUT if he's not going to pitch this year for whatever reason (assume he isn't ready) then don't we need JA AND Roy to make it to WFC?

No. The Phils can probably make the playoffs without Halladay, but Roy would cement them as favorites for the division, and the Halladay/Hamels 1-2 punch in the playoffs would be HUGE (assuming Hamels rebounds). Happ is probably at best the #4 starter in the playoffs, meaning he might only get 1 or 2 starts.

by **FTN** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 19:30:51

Shane shouldn't have said that. No questions asked.

by **FTN** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 19:36:13

Grades are given on a base-5 system (40, 45, 50, 55, 60, etc.)...A score of 50 is major-league average, 60 is above-average (also referred to as “plus”), and 70 is among the best (“plus-plus”). 80 is top of the charts, and not a score that gets thrown around liberally. 80s in any category are rare, and the scoring system is definitely a strong curve that regresses to around 50 at the major league level, but lower as you move down. Very few players have a 50 score or higher for every tool. Just being average across the board is quite an accomplishment.

So a 60 (or 6, if you like 2-8), is an above average pitching prospect, a guy who will be above average in terms of velocity, and projected future performance.

Drabek is probably a 65, Knapp might be a 60, and I'd guess Carrasco is now a 50 or 55.

by **smitty** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 19:39:28

Scouts rate players skills usiing what is it -- a 20 to 80 scale right? A grade 60 must be a guy who is a 60 (or more) as a total package on that scale. That's got to be someone who isn't lacking that there hit tool, but instead, has all of them.

by **hoya** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 19:42:12

Umm, if we don't have three 60s, does Law think there are less than 25 in the minor total? Or does he just not like Drabek, Taylor, and Brown?

by **FTN** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 19:52:23

ek wrote:is it just a pitching grade?

The 20-80 scale applies to both hitters and pitchers, but the tools rated are obviously different. For hitters its; hit for power, hit for average, running speed/aptitude, arm strength, and fielding ability. For pitchers they measure mainly arm strength, control/command, and delivery. For pitchers especially, scouts sometimes give a present grade and future grade, which is obviously based on projection

If you surveyed 20 scouts, I think the Phillies would have four prospects with 60's or higher; Drabek, Brown, Knapp and Taylor

by **FTN** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 19:55:26

hoya wrote:Umm, if we don't have three 60s, does Law think there are less than 25 in the minor total? Or does he just not like Drabek, Taylor, and Brown?

I think hes generally more pessimistic than BA and Goldstein, which is fine.

A 60 is an above average major leaguer. Above average major leaguers don't grow on trees, after all.

by **momadance** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 21:27:51

I guess Pelfrey > Halladay

http://www.metsrefugees.com/forum/showt ... hp?t=14717

by 1 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 21:30:35

somebody want to tell me why ron darling would have any idea about this. at all?

edit: just read the second page. they're not as dumb as i thought.

by **traderdave** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 21:33:42

momadance wrote:I guess Pelfrey > Halladay

http://www.metsrefugees.com/forum/showt ... hp.t=14717

I love that one guy that is like "you wouldn't trade Pelfrey and ONE (my emphasis) of our prospects for him?" Hey maybe Toronto will do Pelfrey straight up and pick up half of Doc's salary.

by **cartersDad26** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 21:34:33

momadance wrote:I guess Pelfrey > Halladay

http://www.metsrefugees.com/forum/showt ... hp.t=14717

MGF with a brilliant grasp of "no" vs. "know"

by **momadance** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 21:36:26

What ever would we do without them?

by **The Red Tornado** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 21:42:59

just posted in my i met ron darling thread.

the phils are getting him. as per ron.

werth, mayberry, happ
for
wells, and halladay.

LOL WUT?

by **FTN** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 21:52:42

The Red Tornado wrote:
just posted in my i met ron darling thread.

the phils are getting him. as per ron.

werth, mayberry, happ
for
wells, and halladay.

LOL WUT?

thats retarded on so many levels

by **FTN** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 21:55:26

Pelfrey may yet turn into Roy Halladay. At the age of 25 Halladay had yet to do anything in MLB. At the age of 24 Pelfrey won 13 games and posted a sub 4.0 ERA

One of the greatest things Ive ever read.

by **The Red Tornado** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 22:01:44

I honestly dont know why poopdoop even posts there, he's like the only rational guy

by **Woody** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 22:07:41

FTN wrote:
Pelfrey may yet turn into Roy Halladay. At the age of 25 Halladay had yet to do anything in MLB. At the age of 24 Pelfrey won 13 games and posted a sub 4.0 ERA

One of the greatest things Ive ever read.

Breathtaking, really.

by **kopphanatic** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 22:10:49

That's whats really funny, not the guys who think that Toronto will give up Halladay for Pelfrey and junk but the guys who are all like "No No, we can't give up Big Pelf! We're so much better off with him than Halladay!"

by **jerseyhoya** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 22:12:21

kopphanatic wrote:That's whats really funny, not the guys who think that Toronto will give up Halladay for Pelfrey and junk but the guys who are all like "No No, we can't give up Big Pelf! We're so much better off with him than Halladay!"

There are people here who don't seem to want to part with Happ for Halladay

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Halladay is on the block, fyi