My bizarre Roy Halladay obsession

by **Grotewold** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 16:27:06

phatj wrote:
JFLNYC wrote:Murphy makes the point (and I think a good one) that including Happ is problematic. For as much as you upgrade the top of the rotation, it leaves a hole in the bottom (at least this year).

Say what? You're replacing Happ with Halladay. I like JA, but I think I could live with that.

Losing Happ mitigates the addition of Halladay a little during the regular season, I guess, but what a difference Halladay would make as the #1/2 in a playoff series

by **jamiethekiller** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 16:27:14

phatj wrote:
JFLNYC wrote:Murphy makes the point (and I think a good one) that including Happ is problematic. For as much as you upgrade the top of the rotation, it leaves a hole in the bottom (at least this year).

Say what? You're replacing Happ with Halladay. I like JA, but I think I could live with that.

you're replacing lopez with halladay. not happ for halladay

by **The Dude** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 16:34:43

lopez would still be in the rotation

by **stevemc** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 16:40:01

scottdg wrote:If I had to rank those scenarios I would say:

5
1
2
3
4

They would have to be insane to do #4. I am not a fan of 2 or 3 either but to get Halladay I might do it. I like Taylor more than Brown if only because he is closer to ML ready so any scenario in which they keep Taylor and Drabek sounds good to me.

agreed. I don't know if I'm more of a fan of Taylor than Brown but #4 includes Drabek, Taylor & Happ? No way.

by **FTN** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 16:51:02

If i were Amaro, id tell JP to write down a list of 5 names, and the list cant include drabek or brown. If he wants taylor, carrasco, savery, donald and marson, he can have them.

You're talking about one of the 5 best pitchers in basebal, in his prime. A pitcher that is perfectly suited to our park and our team. And you keep your 2 best prospects.

Its a no brainer

by **mcare89** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 16:54:38

FTN wrote:If i were Amaro, id tell JP to write down a list of 5 names, and the list cant include drabek or brown. If he wants taylor, carrasco, savery, donald and marson, he can have them.

You're talking about one of the 5 best pitchers in basebal, in his prime. A pitcher that is perfectly suited to our park and our team. And you keep your 2 best prospects.

Its a no brainer

Steep, but I'd probably pull the trigger.

by **philliesr98** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 16:59:26

I said it once and I'll say it again, trade whoever it takes to get a legitimate 1

It's more for me at this point of WHO are we trading our prospects for rather than who are we trading...

Halladay, yes, trade anyone except drabek and one of taylor and brown

Lincecum, trade everyone

see what im saying?

and that goes for any legitimate #1

FTN makes a good point, our system can finally handle a trade of this magnitude, and its a perfect time to do it.

I will also say, trading any ML talent right now is silly and counterproductive for what this trade is meant to do... so no to werth and vic, not midseason, thats just silly... this trade for a frontline starter should be viewed as a stretch run playoff thing to make the MLB team better.... only trade ML talent to either a) make room for prospect b)restock farm system. neither we need to do right now

by **FTN** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 17:01:25

ek wrote:I would think he'd want one of those two guys though

Taylor has more buzz now and would be an easier sell to Blue Jays fans. Drabek should be our only untouchable. And if we have to trade him, then we shouldnt move much else

by **phatj** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 17:03:27

Realistically, what would a package centered around Drabek look like?

by **JFLNYC** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 17:07:06

ek wrote:I would think he'd want one of those two guys though

Exactly. It's always fun to negotiate with yourself. But when JP insists on Drabek and/or Brown and you know Halladay is really yours if you say yes, that's when you find out how big your balls are -- one way or the other.

by **FTN** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 17:07:46

phatj wrote:Realistically, what would a package centered around Drabek look like?

for me?

One of Donald and Marson and one of Savery or Worley

by **phatj** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 17:09:08

FTN wrote:
phatj wrote:Realistically, what would a package centered around Drabek look like?

for me?

One of Donald and Marson and one of Savery or Worley

OK, let's call JP.

by **dajafi** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 17:16:01

philliesr98 wrote:I will also say, trading any ML talent right now is silly and counterproductive for what this trade is meant to do... so no to werth and vic, not midseason, thats just silly... this trade for a frontline starter should be viewed as a stretch run playoff thing to make the MLB team better.... only trade ML talent to either a) make room for prospect b)restock farm system. neither we need to do right now

I think this is sound, with the one exception that if there were another deal in place to replace Happ--or that the organization had much more confidence than I think they do that Carrasco could show up and replace Happ without a problem--then maybe I'd include J.A. in a deal for Halladay. *If* Hamels is okay and Moyer and Blanton are more like the guys from June/July than the April/May versions, we probably don't need Happ to win the division, and he doesn't help us that much in October going up against Ted Lilly or Clayton Kershaw.

by **Bakestar** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 17:17:53

I am trying to think of elaborate scenarios that involve us taking on something like half of Vernon Wells' salary in exchange for us shipping them Jayson Werth and some mid-level prospects.

by **phatj** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 17:20:01

dajafi wrote:
philliesr98 wrote:I will also say, trading any ML talent right now is silly and counterproductive for what this trade is meant to do... so no to werth and vic, not midseason, thats just silly... this trade for a frontline starter should be viewed as a stretch run playoff thing to make the MLB team better.... only trade ML talent to either a) make room for prospect b)restock farm system. neither we need to do right now

I think this is sound, with the one exception that if there were another deal in place to replace Happ--or that the organization had much more confidence than I think they do that Carrasco could show up and replace Happ without a problem--then maybe I'd include J.A. in a deal for Halladay. *If* Hamels is okay and Moyer and Blanton are more like the guys from June/July than the April/May versions, we probably don't need Happ to win the division, and he doesn't help us that much in October going up against Ted Lilly or Clayton Kershaw.

OK, what am I missing here? If Happ is traded in a deal for Halladay, then Halladay is the replacement for Happ. Why do you need a second deal?

by **JFLNYC** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 17:20:14

Rube: "JP? I know you've got offers from the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers and Mets for the guy who is arguably the most valuable pitcher in all MLB. So I'm going to knock your socks off. I'm prepared to give you a kid one year off TJ surgery, a 2B/SS (neither of which you need) with a .617 OPS in AAA and a kid who's not really one of our top pitching prospects, but who's having a really nice year in AA."

** crickets **

JP? JP?"

by **Werthless** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 17:20:48

That would be interesting, taking that albatross of a contract. But my guess is that we'd seriously dial down our prospect bundle then, and I'm not sure it would be a great fit anyway (I doubt Amaro wants to take on bad long-term contracts this early in his term as GM).

by **Werthless** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 17:21:39

phatj wrote:OK, what am I missing here? If Happ is traded in a deal for Halladay, then Halladay is the replacement for Happ. Why do you need a second deal?

We'd still have Moyer and Lopez eating major innings. That may be a problem going forward.

by **jerseyhoya** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 17:21:43

phatj wrote:
dajafi wrote:
philliesr98 wrote:I will also say, trading any ML talent right now is silly and counterproductive for what this trade is meant to do... so no to werth and vic, not midseason, thats just silly... this trade for a frontline starter should be viewed as a stretch run playoff thing to make the MLB team better.... only trade ML talent to either a) make room for prospect b)restock farm system. neither we need to do right now

I think this is sound, with the one exception that if there were another deal in place to replace Happ--or that the organization had much more confidence than I think they do that Carrasco could show up and replace Happ without a problem--then maybe I'd include J.A. in a deal for Halladay. *If* Hamels is okay and Moyer and Blanton are more like the guys from June/July than the April/May versions, we probably don't need Happ to win the division, and he doesn't help us that much in October going up against Ted Lilly or Clayton Kershaw.

OK, what am I missing here? If Happ is traded in a deal for Halladay, then Halladay is the replacement for Happ. Why do you need a second deal?

I think the whole Rodrigo Lopez thing is what we're all fixing on. Rodrigo Lopez.

by **JFLNYC** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 17:22:42

If you take Wells, the deal should be Henry, Smith, Sanchez and Monasterios.

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My bizarre Roy Halladay obsession