+42 according to Dewan over the last 3 seasons (2nd place over that time).

+23 last season (1st place).

He's got elite range.

For reference (and because it's fun), Jeter is -68 over the last 3 seasons.

kruker wrote:+42 according to Dewan over the last 3 seasons (2nd place over that time).

+23 last season (1st place).

He's got elite range.

For reference (and because it's fun), Jeter is -68 over the last 3 seasons.

Well, there it is.

is he clean, is he brown, does he have nice shoes?

mozartpc27 wrote:

kruker wrote:Jimmy's one of the top defensive SS's in the league. Unless he absolutely falls off a cliff, he's not, nor should he be moved off the position. Donald's no slouch, but he's not pushing Jimmy.

J-Roll makes all the plays, but I always thought the knock on him (and defensive statistics are hardly my forte, so I could well be wrong) was that his range was surprisingly limited, all things considered. If that's true, as he ages, it will only become more true; so maybe it would make sense to bring in a fresh pair of legs to cover the ground at short?

FWIW, I think your assessment was correct until the last couple of years -- defensive stats had Rollins' range trailing considerably behind his reputation. Whether he's gotten better, or whether the statistical systems have been refined and that's why his stats look better, I don't know.

I didn't realize, until I looked up his statistics just now, that Halladay is not really a strikeout pitcher at all. Career 6.4 per 9, although a solid 3:1 in the K/BB ratio. After some uinjury troubles, he's thrown 3 straight years of 220+ IP with last year being the best full season of his career. And he turns 33 next month. So, with a $16 million salary next year, is he really going to be that expensive in a trade? Or, I guess that question is, would NY/BOS be serious bidders?

Seems like he could be had. Especially if Peavy moves first.

prolly the lumberjack beard... obsession solved

I hope he goes by his middle name to avoid confusion with his father because otherwise I don't see how you could pass up going by Harry Halladay

*bump*

Looks like he is in play. I think its going to take 5 players to get him, one of which has to be Drabek or Brown. Would you do

D. Brown
Bastardo (assuming his injury is not more than is let on)
Carpenter
Stutes
Kendrick (he replaces Halliday for this year)

Still leaves us with Drabek, Carassco, Savery, Marson etc.

BigB wrote:Looks like he is in play. I think its going to take 5 players to get him, one of which has to be Drabek or Brown. Would you do

D. Brown
Bastardo (assuming his injury is not more than is let on)
Carpenter
Stutes
Kendrick (he replaces Halliday for this year)

Still leaves us with Drabek, Carassco, Savery, Marson etc.

they'll want the 5 best and only the five best.

drabek/brown/taylor/marson and insert any of the other top 10 guys.

jamiethekiller wrote:

BigB wrote:Looks like he is in play. I think its going to take 5 players to get him, one of which has to be Drabek or Brown. Would you do

D. Brown
Bastardo (assuming his injury is not more than is let on)
Carpenter
Stutes
Kendrick (he replaces Halliday for this year)

Still leaves us with Drabek, Carassco, Savery, Marson etc.

they'll want the 5 best and only the five best.

drabek/brown/taylor/marson and insert any of the other top 10 guys.

They may want that but I think that the offer above might be the best they will get not only from the PHillies but other teams.

jamiethekiller wrote:

BigB wrote:Looks like he is in play. I think its going to take 5 players to get him, one of which has to be Drabek or Brown. Would you do

D. Brown
Bastardo (assuming his injury is not more than is let on)
Carpenter
Stutes
Kendrick (he replaces Halliday for this year)

Still leaves us with Drabek, Carassco, Savery, Marson etc.

they'll want the 5 best and only the five best.

drabek/brown/taylor/marson and insert any of the other top 10 guys.

That's simply not true. I can't remember the last trade where a team gave up, literally, it's 5 best prospects. I know the Phils will have to give up one of Drabek or Brown. I don't think they'll have to give up both, but if they do, they certainly won't have to give up Taylor in the deal.

I think that for most of these guys, if you offer them one of Drabek and Carrasco (Drabek obviously) and one of Brown or Taylor (less clear who they'd pick, but probably Brown), you could fill around the edges with the other players.

Can someone who understands prospects and their value explain to me why we'd have to give up our five best for Halladay but the Mets got Santana for what seemed much less? The Twins don't strike me as a stupid organization.

I think something like Brown and Carrasco plus one of Kendrick/Savery/Flande/Bastardo/Carpenter/Worley might get it done. I would do this deal.

Personally I'd rather trade Brown than Taylor, as Brown's upside may be higher given age but Taylor is highly likely to be at least as good as say, Werth, while Brown could still flame out.

I think the Phils would have a good shot if they are willing to pick up the salary - and the trade would come down to who will blink on Drabek vs. Carrasco in the deal.

Can some do a comparison of what the Mess gave up for Joe-han to what we have in our system?

I'm lazy/pretending to work.

Grotewold wrote:Can someone who understands prospects and their value explain to me why we'd have to give up our five best for Halladay but the Mets got Santana for what seemed much less? The Twins don't strike me as a stupid organization.

Santana had a complete no-trade and would only go to three teams (I think), the Red Sox, Yankees and Mets. The first two were only interested in keeping him from the other, so they tacitly agreed that neither would make a strong offer. That left the Twins with the choice of either trading him to the Mets, essentially at Omar's price, or letting him walk as a free agent a year later when his contract would be up. Sadly, they made the deal.

Obviously, circumstances around Doc Halladay are very different. Our system will be stripped if he get him (though I agree with jeff: one of Carrasco/Drabek, one of Taylor/Brown, one of Marson/D'Arnaud and one or two non-top 10 prospects should be enough). Might be worth it though.

dajafi wrote:Santana had a complete no-trade and would only go to three teams (I think), the Red Sox, Yankees and Mets. The first two were only interested in keeping him from the other, so they tacitly agreed that neither would make a strong offer. That left the Twins with the choice of either trading him to the Mets, essentially at Omar's price, or letting him walk as a free agent a year later when his contract would be up. Sadly, they made the deal.

That makes sense -- thanks

Would the Jays want Victorino at all?

for Santana:

rhp Deolis Guerra, 20 - hasn't been great in high A

rhp Kevin Mulvey, 24 - ok era, high whip in AAA

Carlos Gomez has sucked for the Twins

and rhp Philip Humber was drafted third but hasn't done anything for the twins