gpicaro wrote:

Houshphandzadeh wrote:

gpicaro wrote:I posted this on another board, but, to the people that don't want the Phillies to trade away prospects, what do you expect them to do within the next two years when, at the very least, Kendrick, Carrasco, Carpenter, Bastardo, Worley, Savery, Stutes, Flande, and Drabek are ready to play with Hamels and Happ in the majors.

Finally have #3, 4, and 5 pitchers that don't suck?

Ok, but there are 9 minor league guys I listed there. What do you do with the other 6? My point is that you can get Halladay, give up some prospects, have legitimate 1 and 1a starters, and still have #3, 4, and 5 pitchers that don't suck IMO.

I'm not really up on the minors, so when you include Kendrick there I guess it seemed to me that was your minimum baseline for how good the others guy I don't know much about (Worley, Stutes), and I'd rather have our baseline for acceptable starting pitching higher than Kendrick.

Grotewold wrote:

gpicaro wrote:I posted this on another board, but, to the people that don't want the Phillies to trade away prospects, what do you expect them to do within the next two years when, at the very least, Kendrick, Carrasco, Carpenter, Bastardo, Worley, Savery, Stutes, Flande, and Drabek are ready to play with Hamels and Happ in the majors.

The part of me what wants to hang on to our prospects doesn't expect all those guys to start in 2011 but wants as big a pool as possible from which to develop a potential ace.

I can see that, but, none of those guys mentioned will become an ace IMO. They could easily be quality 3-5 guys. So getting Hallady to pair with Hamels gives you 1 and 1a guys.

jerseyhoya wrote:

gpicaro wrote:

Houshphandzadeh wrote:

gpicaro wrote:I posted this on another board, but, to the people that don't want the Phillies to trade away prospects, what do you expect them to do within the next two years when, at the very least, Kendrick, Carrasco, Carpenter, Bastardo, Worley, Savery, Stutes, Flande, and Drabek are ready to play with Hamels and Happ in the majors.

Finally have #3, 4, and 5 pitchers that don't suck?

Ok, but there are 9 minor league guys I listed there. What do you do with the other 6? My point is that you can get Halladay, give up some prospects, have legitimate 1 and 1a starters, and still have #3, 4, and 5 pitchers that don't suck IMO.

Because all nine are likely to pan out, stay healthy, etc

I agree that all 9 won't pan out but do you not want Halladay Hoya?

gpicaro wrote:I posted this on another board, but, to the people that don't want the Phillies to trade away prospects, what do you expect them to do within the next two years when, at the very least, Kendrick, Carrasco, Carpenter, Bastardo, Worley, Savery, Stutes, Flande, and Drabek are ready to play with Hamels and Happ in the majors.

Because in reality 2-3 of those guys will be worth anything at the major league level within the next 2 years.

Houshphandzadeh wrote:I'd rather have our baseline for acceptable starting pitching higher than Kendrick.

Grotewold wrote:

gpicaro wrote:Ok, but there are 9 minor league guys I listed there. What do you do with the other 6?

You think all nine will pan out as MLB starters?

Actually yes. I think any of the nine would at the very least be able to be a #5 in the majors.

gpicaro wrote:

Grotewold wrote:

gpicaro wrote:Ok, but there are 9 minor league guys I listed there. What do you do with the other 6?

You think all nine will pan out as MLB starters?

Actually yes. I think any of the nine would at the very least be able to be a #5 in the majors.

You are crazy.

At the present time, all of those guys (minus Kendrick) are still thought of as prospects. I included Kendrick in the discussion because I assume Toronto would want someone that could pitch in the majors right now. Anyway, chances are the mentioned prospects won't turn out to be amazing major leaguers. So wouldn't it be beneficial to get an ace with some of them while their value is still decent?

Drabek is really the only guy in that list that has the chance to be a top starter IMO, but Halladay is already an ace and you have to give to get. I really would have no problem trading Carrasco, Kendrick, Bastardo, Flande, and Brown to get Halladay if an extension could be worked out. Brown is the only one out of those that I would miss, but, again, you have to give to get.

I think the wave of guys who project as #3-5 starters provides a cushion for the blow of losing Drabek (and, more to the point, a source of less expensive replacements for Moyer and Blanton over the next two years). None of them likely have all that much trade value on their own, nor is it likely that any trade partner would try to recoup in bulk what they'd be parting with in quality.

Hopefully the Phillies have given thought to which of them projects as best-fit for the ballpark and defense, and will protect that guy or guys (Savery?) while showing a willingness to trade the others as secondary pieces in deals to fill other needs.

I'm sure we'd all do that because nobody cares about Bastardo, Kendrick, or Flande.

People care about Drabek, Knapp, Taylor, Brown, and Happ. People care, but somewhat less, about Marson, Donald (maybe), and Carrasco. Beyond that I don't think anyone cares what we'd have to give up for Halladay.

maybe it is best to get rid of drabek. he's already had one TJ surgery.

jamiethekiller wrote:maybe it is best to get rid of drabek. he's already had one TJ surgery.

I would so much rather get rid of Carrasco. People have always been so high on him and I have never really understood it. I think his value is only going to go down over time. I see him becoming a Padilla here. IMO they should get rid of him while his value is still fairly high.

Grotewold wrote:Buster Heyman reporting Halladay gave Ricciardi the green light to deal him.

Murphy says a friend of Hallady's described him as "shy" but said he would probably go to Philly, NY, Boston, etc.


Sent from my Cricket

Utley's shy, too! Hook it up, Rube!

I just hope Halladay doesn't ask Rolen or Barajas about Philadelphia.

philliesphhan wrote:

Grotewold wrote:Buster Heyman reporting Halladay gave Ricciardi the green light to deal him.

Murphy says a friend of Hallady's described him as "shy" but said he would probably go to Philly, NY, Boston, etc.


Sent from my Cricket

Utley's shy, too! Hook it up, Rube!

I just hope Halladay doesn't ask Rolen or Barajas about Philadelphia.

Not to worry, Matt Stairs has our back!

I think they can still come up with the best offer without including Drabek, especially if Hap is in the deal. They want someone who is ML ready and they will get that in Happ. They want a shortstop and they will get that in Donald. They would have to add Brown or Taylor to that list plus possibly one other pitcher. Would Happ, Brown, Donald and Flande get it done? What about Carrasco instead of Flande?

philliesphhan wrote:

Grotewold wrote:Buster Heyman reporting Halladay gave Ricciardi the green light to deal him.

Murphy says a friend of Hallady's described him as "shy" but said he would probably go to Philly, NY, Boston, etc.


Sent from my Cricket

Utley's shy, too! Hook it up, Rube!

I just hope Halladay doesn't ask Rolen or Barajas about Philadelphia.

FWIW, Halladay is a Colorado guy as is Lidge. They're the same age and probably played against each other in high school, so they have that going for them, which is nice.

Im Drabek's biggest fan.

When people called him a bust the day after we drafted him, I supported him.

I've been saying that I think he's our best prospect.

That said, if the price for Halladay is Drabek, Happ, and Donald, then I think Rube has to make that deal before JP changes his mind

scottdg wrote:Would Happ, Brown, Donald and Flande get it done? What about Carrasco instead of Flande?

I would do either of those trades. I really wouldn't want to give up Happ, but you don't get the chance to get a true ace very often. I guess they would then bring up Kendrick or Carpenter to replace Happ in the rotation. Ultimately I would love them to get Halladay while keeping Drabek and Taylor.

If Happ (among others) is traded for Halladay, Halladay replaces Happ in the rotation.

Mountainphan wrote:

philliesphhan wrote:

Grotewold wrote:Buster Heyman reporting Halladay gave Ricciardi the green light to deal him.

Murphy says a friend of Hallady's described him as "shy" but said he would probably go to Philly, NY, Boston, etc.


Sent from my Cricket

Utley's shy, too! Hook it up, Rube!

I just hope Halladay doesn't ask Rolen or Barajas about Philadelphia.

FWIW, Halladay is a Colorado guy as is Lidge. They're the same age and probably played against each other in high school, so they have that going for them, which is nice.

Unless they hated each other in high school.

edit: yessssss

Halladay is married and has two children. He and his wife are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Didn't Lidge thank Jesus upon winning the World Series?