Shadow wrote:nor should he be.

Shore wrote:

Shadow wrote:nor should he be.

Get him. Now.

mcare89 wrote:

Shadow wrote:Another thing I can think of is Jim Salisbury has said several times he's heard Boras will want to push Rendon or Cole to Philly because he wants Harper to win a World Series. It's possible Rendon wasn't in their plan but Boras is really pushing him on Middleton, but I do know Rendon hasn't been in their plans, nor should he be.

I can absolutely buy the idea that this is Boras pushing the idea that the S.S. Stupid Money is ready to launch once more to try to drive up Rendon's price, but why do you think he shouldn't be in their plans? He was one of the best players in the sport last year, he's been consistently good for about three years now, and the Phillies have a hole at third base. Not only that, but signing Rendon would also potentially allow them to use Bohm as a trade chip for pitching rather than relying on him to come up and save the season in July.

gr's point abou #notmymoney is fair, and it's obviously a balancing act that you can't just keep spending money forever because there is opportunity cost, but this team as currently constructed just flat out isn't good enough, and their core is in its prime right now (Harper, Realmuto, Nola, Wheeler, all in their mid-late 20's.). What are we waiting for?

Shadow wrote:I evaluate him as a .280/23/95 kinda guy

Shadow wrote:I evaluate him as a .280/23/95 kinda guy under normal circumstances

Shore wrote:

Shadow wrote:I evaluate him as a .280/23/95 kinda guy under normal circumstances

I evaluate him as a 5'4", 140lb kinda player, and I don't like those.

gr wrote:On Arrieta, it's almost as if they overpaid for a declining player with a short prime who didn't provide much value and now soaks up 15% of the payroll when they could really use the money.

That's why #notmymoney is always a nonsense argument. You like a good team? Signings like this prevent you from watching one. But they happen over and over bc a team can't do the things it needs to do internally to get competitive.

mtcal wrote:

Shore wrote:

Shadow wrote:I evaluate him as a .280/23/95 kinda guy under normal circumstances

I evaluate him as a 5'4", 140lb kinda player, and I don't like those.

36 24 36?

mcare89 wrote:The more and more I look at this team I just don't see how they're a real competitor without busting the tax. Right now they need at least one more quality starting infielder and another mid-rotation starter, among other things, for about $20 million, which seems difficult. This team's only advantage in 2020 is going to be that they can outspend everyone else, and I think they just have to bite the bullet and use it if they really want to compete. I'm generally fairly tolerant of the idea of the luxury tax being a de facto cap, but the Phillies are just so lacking in terms of major league ready impact prospects that I feel like it's their only real path if winning now is really their goal.

MoBettle wrote:

mcare89 wrote:The more and more I look at this team I just don't see how they're a real competitor without busting the tax. Right now they need at least one more quality starting infielder and another mid-rotation starter, among other things, for about $20 million, which seems difficult. This team's only advantage in 2020 is going to be that they can outspend everyone else, and I think they just have to bite the bullet and use it if they really want to compete. I'm generally fairly tolerant of the idea of the luxury tax being a de facto cap, but the Phillies are just so lacking in terms of major league ready impact prospects that I feel like it's their only real path if winning now is really their goal.

Just seems awkward for the front office to have to go to Middleton and tell him they need more money to compete with other teams in their division that don't have to spend that much. They're probably blowing smoke up his butt that if XYZ goes right they've got a shot. Klentak saying they need to pay the tax is basically him admitting that he hasn't done a good enough job. If they go over it will be because Middleton decides on his own.

Rockinghorse wrote:

MoBettle wrote:

mcare89 wrote:The more and more I look at this team I just don't see how they're a real competitor without busting the tax. Right now they need at least one more quality starting infielder and another mid-rotation starter, among other things, for about $20 million, which seems difficult. This team's only advantage in 2020 is going to be that they can outspend everyone else, and I think they just have to bite the bullet and use it if they really want to compete. I'm generally fairly tolerant of the idea of the luxury tax being a de facto cap, but the Phillies are just so lacking in terms of major league ready impact prospects that I feel like it's their only real path if winning now is really their goal.

Just seems awkward for the front office to have to go to Middleton and tell him they need more money to compete with other teams in their division that don't have to spend that much. They're probably blowing smoke up his butt that if XYZ goes right they've got a shot. Klentak saying they need to pay the tax is basically him admitting that he hasn't done a good enough job. If they go over it will be because Middleton decides on his own.

Pretty simple. Most of us could go to our bosses and say, you know how we can really take this to the next level is to spend like twice as much money. We may get a polite hearing or even some concessions, but it's not a great long term survival plan if you're not the one with the money.

Rockinghorse wrote:

MoBettle wrote:

mcare89 wrote:The more and more I look at this team I just don't see how they're a real competitor without busting the tax. Right now they need at least one more quality starting infielder and another mid-rotation starter, among other things, for about $20 million, which seems difficult. This team's only advantage in 2020 is going to be that they can outspend everyone else, and I think they just have to bite the bullet and use it if they really want to compete. I'm generally fairly tolerant of the idea of the luxury tax being a de facto cap, but the Phillies are just so lacking in terms of major league ready impact prospects that I feel like it's their only real path if winning now is really their goal.

Just seems awkward for the front office to have to go to Middleton and tell him they need more money to compete with other teams in their division that don't have to spend that much. They're probably blowing smoke up his butt that if XYZ goes right they've got a shot. Klentak saying they need to pay the tax is basically him admitting that he hasn't done a good enough job. If they go over it will be because Middleton decides on his own.

Pretty simple. Most of us could go to our bosses and say, you know how we can really take this to the next level is to spend like twice as much money. We may get a polite hearing or even some concessions, but it's not a great long term survival plan if you're not the one with the money.

Shadow wrote:

mcare89 wrote:

Shadow wrote:Another thing I can think of is Jim Salisbury has said several times he's heard Boras will want to push Rendon or Cole to Philly because he wants Harper to win a World Series. It's possible Rendon wasn't in their plan but Boras is really pushing him on Middleton, but I do know Rendon hasn't been in their plans, nor should he be.

I can absolutely buy the idea that this is Boras pushing the idea that the S.S. Stupid Money is ready to launch once more to try to drive up Rendon's price, but why do you think he shouldn't be in their plans? He was one of the best players in the sport last year, he's been consistently good for about three years now, and the Phillies have a hole at third base. Not only that, but signing Rendon would also potentially allow them to use Bohm as a trade chip for pitching rather than relying on him to come up and save the season in July.

gr's point abou #notmymoney is fair, and it's obviously a balancing act that you can't just keep spending money forever because there is opportunity cost, but this team as currently constructed just flat out isn't good enough, and their core is in its prime right now (Harper, Realmuto, Nola, Wheeler, all in their mid-late 20's.). What are we waiting for?

I think people vastly overrate him as a player and you'd be buying high on him coming off his best season. I evaluate him as a .280/23/95 kinda guy under normal circumstances, I would be pretty stunned if he had a season like this past season again, though you never know with juiced baseballs altering performances all over the place(except for the Phillies of course).

I'd take him. Just not at the money he'd command, and he's going to likely command as much if not more than Arenado and he is not nearly as good as Arenado. Also, you can find fill-in guys at 3B, if they sign one more mega deal it needs to be on pitching.