2019-20 Phillies Offseason: Striving for Better Than Average

by **joe table** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 01:09:49

You think you’d be inclined to trade some guy the Phillies drafted in 1st round post 2002 for kris Bryant? Hot taek

by **mcare89** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 01:14:10

I’d give up Agholor and a 5th but no more than that

by **Wheels Tupay** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 08:11:27

A trade for kris Bryant was discussed on mlbnetwork yesterday. It involved taking back Heyward's deal.

by **Wheels Tupay** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 08:12:54

They also discussed a david price for Segura deal. Basically both deals were discussing how the red Sox and cubs want to dump salary

by **PTOITWCFTPP** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:28:21

Wheels Tupay wrote:A trade for kris Bryant was discussed on mlbnetwork yesterday. It involved taking back Heyward's deal.

Okay

by **Uncle Milty** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:25:19

Taking Heyward's or Price's contract should eliminate sending any top prospects.

No problem sending Bohm in a Bryant deal just for Bryant.

by **MFP** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:25:57

joe table wrote:You think you’d be inclined to trade some guy the Phillies drafted in 1st round post 2002 for kris Bryant? Hot taek

Economics, friendo. Harper + JT + Bryant extension + Cole/Strasburg (not to mention the possibility of a Hoskins extension) could get pretty damn tight when it comes to the luxury tax.

And in a vaccum, including Stott in a trade for Bryant is clearly a no-brainer. But last I checked, this isn't a vacuum and moving an inexpensive, productive contributor at a premium position for six years like Stott looks like he has a good chance to be, especially given some of the big salaries around him, shouldn't just be tossed off.

by **Uncle Milty** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:34:34

With less than 200 pro plate appearances you can't project Stott to have a "good chance" at anything.

by **MFP** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:59:04

For the record, as I said in my initial post, I'd ultimately be in favor of such a trade. My main point was that for a variety of reasons, it's not as big of a slam dunk as it might seem, especially if you'd have to take Heyward and his contract that runs through 2023 at $23M per back in the deal.

by **Uncle Milty** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:43:27

Apologize if that came off the wrong way.

I agree with you general point on the economics but... There's a slim chance that Bohm, Howard and Stott all become valuable contributors. By the time that happens what remains of the contributors we have now? Nola and Cutch will be a FAs. Bryce, JT, Segura will be on the wrong side of 30 and approaching free agency (except Bryce). We also don't know what to truly project for Rhys, Kingery and Haseley by that point.

Unless there's a dramatic turnaround in draft and international success I don't see any way out of the mire of mediocrity without surpassing the tax a number of times in the near future. The best hope is a shell game that prevents becoming a repeat offender.

by **rolex** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:51:06

For an organization that has been highly criticized for a lack of prospects, to start selling off the few ones that they do have doesn't make sense. Obtaining Bryant would be nice but for Bohm, not on that at all. Moniak or lesser prospects fien but not Bohm,Hasely, Howard or Stott. I can see the Cubs trying to move Bryant after they jacked him around for a few years; he probably can't get out of Chicago fast enough. Don't want Heyward and his albatross of a contract.

by **azrider** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 13:01:14

Uncle Milty wrote:
Unless there's a dramatic turnaround in draft and international success I don't see any way out of the mire of mediocrity without surpassing the tax a number of times in the near future. The best hope is a shell game that prevents becoming a repeat offender.

this is the situation i think the phillies are in too.

i love bohm and specifically his bat, but if he can't stick at 3rd... you gotta go after bryant and play that shell game, and hope their is that dramatic turnaround in the draft 4 plus years down the road.

by **WhiteyFan** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 13:26:27

Wasnt that long ago that people were calling Maik, JPC, Kingery, Sixto, Medina, Moniak, etc all untouchable and projecting them to be long-term pieces too.

Meddlton is no half-asser. He paid Harper and he wants to win now. All the talk about not losing picks makes me think they're even more likely to fire-sale the farm this off-season.

by **mtcal** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 13:59:57

WhiteyFan wrote:Wasnt that long ago that people were calling Maik, JPC, Kingery, Sixto, Medina, Moniak, etc all untouchable and projecting them to be long-term pieces too.

Meddlton is no half-asser. He paid Harper and he wants to win now. All the talk about not losing picks makes me think they're even more likely to fire-sale the farm this off-season.

my fb memories haunt me with things like dom brown

by **MFP** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 14:03:10

Uncle Milty wrote:Apologize if that came off the wrong way.

I agree with you general point on the economics but... There's a slim chance that Bohm, Howard and Stott all become valuable contributors. By the time that happens what remains of the contributors we have now? Nola and Cutch will be a FAs. Bryce, JT, Segura will be on the wrong side of 30 and approaching free agency (except Bryce). We also don't know what to truly project for Rhys, Kingery and Haseley by that point.

Unless there's a dramatic turnaround in draft and international success I don't see any way out of the mire of mediocrity without surpassing the tax a number of times in the near future. The best hope is a shell game that prevents becoming a repeat offender.

No worries. No offense taken.

The problem with surpassing the tax, like you alluded to, is that for a team that seems to be placing a higher priority on its draft pick position, it doesn't seem to make sense that they'd want to incur the draft penalties that go along with surpassing the tax in consecutive seasons. And when you factor in the salaries for Harper, the assumed top FA SP signing this offseason, JT's extension (which they may already be considering kicking the can down the road to next year on for luxury tax reasons), and then a hypothetical Bryant extension (because giving up significant prospects for only two years of Bryant and then letting him walk after 2021 seems unlikely), it starts to get very tricky monetarily to fill out a contending roster with those high-ticket items without hitting the tax. Maybe they have a new, better GM by that point who can navigate that more effectively, but that's no guarantee.

And as to your points about the contributors that are already in place and their contracts coming up (though Nola's actually locked in via a club option through the 2023 season) and the uncertainty that comes with development, isn't that sort of the reason that you'd have to think long and hard about moving guys on the Bohm, Howard, and Stott tier (who, sure, are not certain to become stars/valued contributors but who at the same time are well regarded around baseball for a reason)?

by **MFP** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 15:46:35

@jonmorosi
Sources: #Phillies pursuing Didi Gregorius in free agency, as I reported on
@MLBNetwork
today, with the idea that Jean Segura would move to a different position or be traded. Joe Girardi managed Didi in New York, of course.
@MLB

by **mcare89** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 15:56:09

Really starting to get tired of the Phillies adding high-priced vets in free agency or trades only to turn on them a year later and sell them off for parts.

by **MoBettle** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 16:19:04

Just seems like a formula for a mediocre offense. Sort of wasting having a catcher that can hit like JT.

by **joe table** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 16:34:03

Trading segura doesn’t make a ton of sense unless someone wants to give up a rotation arm that would be a #2 here (not a very high bar so basically an average starter)

by **GrizzledVeteran** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 16:37:50

I don’t get the Didi talk. He’s played more than 150 games just twice in 8 seasons and has a career OPS of .742, which is barely above Cesar Hernandez and 1 point lower than Segura. He doesn’t strike out too much but I really don’t see him as an upgrade. Unless you factor in the Yankee Mystique. Am I missing something? Is he a super-elite defender?

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